Republicans trying to burn the Constitution and disgusted by immigrants

Even if you leave out SSI though there are still things like pension funds and any other retirement investments that will provide for those who are no longer working. You still need young and productive people to come into the economy.

As far as personalizing the issue yes this issue is personal. Would you accept the idea that you shouldn't be a citizen?
From my standpoint the personal is inseparable from the issue as a whole. You talk about one person but if this had been the law one of those people would be me.

I believe I have made a contribution to this country but there are plenty of first generation Americans who have made far greater contributions than I have. I challenge you to show that we are a drag on the system.

Even without personalizing the issue I doubt there is evidence to support that immigrants, overall, are a net drag on the economy. It isn't even clear that illegal immigrants are.

 

Posting from down in San Miguel de Allende MX and talking to Mexicans unable to go back and forth to visit their relatives I hate to see immigrants suffer but I also can't help looking forward to the coming day when the Repubs lose TX due to their anti-immigrant policies, as they lost CA, and they are relegated to the heart of the old confederacy and parts of Appalachia.

With Fox and their media ownership of the big networks, as well as the corporate lackey S.Ct allowing unlimited corporate cash for lobbying they may still be able to stalemate the majority, but I think the tide will turn.

 

I'd be willing to accept that stone, but I'm rooting for a service requirement to become a civilian. So, yes, let us do some editing of the 14th amendment. Just because someone is born here doesn't mean you should become a citizen.

Neither immigrants nor natives.

Of course, I can say I want this, knowing this will not happen in my lifetime. But in theory I'm cheering it!

 

Just curious, what part of the old confederacy and/or Appalachia are Idaho, Utah, Montana, Nebraska, Oklahoma, and North Dakota in? Would those be in the heart of the old confederacy? The westernmost ranges of the Appalachians?

 

We can have young productive people immigrate here legally like they do from most of the countries in the world instead of sneaking across the border in the dead of night.

One of those people would be you and like tens of thousands of other people in the world you could have applied to become a US citizen and become one legally without breaking the law. We could personalize the issue in a variety of ways. Personalize it for the wife of a patrolman murdered by an illegal immigrant. Personalize it for the carpenter who makes lower wages because illegals do the work for half the cost. Personalize it for the criminals that prey on illegals and are never caught because the victims won't report crimes to the police. Personalize the cost we all pay for the black market of social security numbers and birth certificates that exists because illegal immigrants need documentation to work. Personalize it for the school system stretched for funding because half of their students are here illegally. Personalize it for the hospital system that gives free health care to any illegal immigrant who'd like to have a baby on US soil. What is the cost of a illegal alien child birth to the medical system? $10k? $15k? There are a lot of ways to personalize the issue, you just want to have it your way because it benefitted you. What about everyone else? What about our sovereignty as a nation? Is that not important to you? What about our security as a nation? How do you have a secure nation if you don't know who's sneaking into it every day? No offense, but there are more critical factors at play here than who thinks they deserve to be a citizen. If you want to be a citizen, follow the rules.

 

If these things are the concern, then having the babies as US citizens is a good thing. It keeps them out of the underground economy. They won't take jobs away from carpenters at illegal wages. They won't be sneaking around, unaccounted for and making the nation insecure. They won't be scared to report crimes against them. They won't be uninsured and costing hospitals money. They won't be enrolled in school illegally. They won't need a black market for a fake SS # or birth certificate.

 

Right, because all babies are born without parents, uncles, cousins, and grandparents who partake in that underground economy.

 

so you're against them changing that trend? if these children aren't considered legal, there's a good chance they'll be illegal at some point.

 

Those people are already here. The question is whether you add the kid to the list or not.

 

That's not the question. The question is whether giving those children automatic citizenship and free health care is incentive for people to stay here and come here illegally. It's obviously an incentive.

This is from the Dallas Morning News, this is just the issues at hospitals. It doesn't even touch on the other problems I presented.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/localnews/stories/061206dnmetmoms.d9b9669.html

A recent patient survey indicated that 70 percent of the women who gave birth at Parkland in the first three months of 2006 were illegal immigrants, hospital officials said.

Many Parkland patients have acknowledged that they came to Dallas from Mexico or other parts of Latin America, hospital officials said. Some of the patients offer foreign passports and expired tourist visas as proof of those journeys. Others describe how they walked across the border and ended up in Dallas County.

Gloria Corona, 31, was back at the prenatal clinic for the first time in four years, convinced that she was pregnant with her third child but wanting to find out for sure. Her boys, 4 and 5 years old, were born at Parkland.

Speaking through a translator, Mrs. Corona expressed gratitude for the Parkland staff having taught her to stay away from alcohol, to eat vegetables and fruits and to drink lots of water during her pregnancies.

She also was grateful that Parkland charged her nothing for the first two deliveries. In her native Mexico, she would have had to pay $200 for a hospital delivery, the equivalent of four to six weeks' pay there, because she had no health insurance, she said.

A cheaper alternative in Mexico would have been a birthing center, which uses less-skilled staff but still costs about $50.

"The care they give here is a lot more personal for me and the baby," said the immaculately dressed woman.

As its patient load has increased, however, Parkland's free maternity care has effectively ended, Mrs. Corona said. The hospital has begun asking all women to pay something toward their bills – at least $10 per prenatal visit and an additional $100 toward the eventual delivery costs.

Mrs. Corona said she wanted to pay something but the amount would depend on whether her husband was working. "I want to pay for the baby," she said, "because they give me the good care here."

 

No, I think if we implement real immigration reform... if we control our borders, document all of our immigrants, give a reasonable pathway to become a citizen, and change the birth law then there's a good chance they'll come here as legal citizens. If you incentivize the behavior you want then you're going to get it a lot more often.

 

We could keep them out of the underground economy by just implementing better immigration policy. More working visas and such. I don't mind immigration (I'm an immigrant). It should just be on the up and up. This will protect our country and immigrants at the same time.

 

America is a country built on immigration. Except for the natives who were here 30,000 years ago, everyone can trace their roots back to an immigrant.

Many of those immigrants didn't have a green card or a visa. They just came.

We have rules and services to fight against illegal immigration and prevent the flood of people into this country. But people want to come here and make money - you can't stop that. People are putting their lives at risk to get here - no amount of border control will stop it. When you have someone who is that desperate to come here, they will find a way.

They do the jobs American citizens or legal immigrants don't want to do. They contribute to the economy, and pay taxes.

Give them work visas then, but to just round them up and toss them out won't solve anything, someone else will just take their place.


Which means the whole process, the whole idea of deporting illegal immigrants and all these laws are just a sham. They won't make a difference. It's just a waste of money because it won't reduce or solve the problem. There's a demand for cheap labor by U.S. companies that can't be filled by domestic workforce....and there is a huge supply across the border that is willing to fill it.

The irony in the tea baggers trying to interfere in "free markets" and what's good for business is clearly a demonstration that their principles only apply to some and why I suspect these kinds of Republicans are mainly driven by racial prejudice.

Afterall, you don't see them crying about illegal white immigrants.

 

I actually think that a child born to two illegal immigrants should not be a citizen if under the age of 5.

If the kid makes it to 5 though they should be granted citizenship.

I also think if illegal immigrants are able to live in the U.S. for 5 years and demonstrate they speak English and have basic knowledge of the U.S. they should be granted naturalization status.

 

How many babies are born to illegal immigrants in the US each year? And of those, how many came here specifically to have kids?

I suspect you're putting a lot of effort into fixing a minor part of problem. And within that subset of people, you're targetting the "less bad" illegal immigrants - those who just want a better life for their families, as opposed to those who cause potential problems for the rest of society (ie, the security problems).

 

http://www2.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2010-07/03/content_10054076.htm

 

So you are saying your bold and underlined statement was completely false?

 

I think this will only encourage more people to enter the country illegally. I support a change to the constitution to only grant citizenship to a child only when one of the parent is a citizen. Living in the US, or even being here is a great privilege that many people around the world would want, and i don't think its fair to grant citizenship to those that break the law.

I think the reason we have so many problem about immigration reform is due to the fact that we already have too many illegal immigrants and their kids in this country. If you and your whole family is a citizen, I don't see many will oppose with granting citizenship to a child only if one of the parent is a citizen.

 

I just got back from San Miguel de Allende. Many Americans want to live there and take part in their great style of life in a climate vastly superior to any in Texas and most of the US except for California.

I say open up the borders. The border is of benefit mainly for the very elite and especially the corporate elite of both societies and keeps the wages low in both countries. With increased mobility of capital and managerial talent and multinational corporations it is an anachronism to not have people be able to move where they want.

I think that such migration would benefit the average person in the world greatly. For instance you might find most of the Jews in Israel moving to NYC or LA, which would largely solve that problem. The elites in Mexco City would have to pay more or start doing their own laundry. With increased wages in Mexico you would find that most Mexicans would prefer to stay with their families rather than move to the US etc.

I could envision a return to the past in which we had unions and good paying unskilled jobs in the US, which immigration possibly threatens in a non-union environement , or for that matter a time when you did not have such jobs as legal research or computer programming increasingly outsourced, but that is not going to happen when the corporate elite dominates our politics, so that is now largely a fantasy.

 

Why would this happen? Is there a major barrier to Israeli Jews moving to the US now? Don't many Jews move to Israel? Honestly I have never heard of barriers to Israeli immigrants to the United States, so I am interested.