I think it is hilarious how people think a party is doomed simply because they do not have a majority or popularity RIGHT NOW. The republicans will be back and and democrats will fall and vice versa until the end of eternity. It is hardly a big deal
I don't think anybody here is claiming that the sun never sets, time has stopped, etc. The nature of this power swing looks particularly bad for Reps though.
I don't think right now means anything. The popularity of this bill will go down. Right now I just hope the GOP doesn't win on being anti-Dem. I'm tired of what seems like growing anger on the right, and tired of the smugness on the left for passing a crappy health care bill. The smart thing to focus on going into 2012:
They are in deep crap until November. The people will voice their opposition to the entire way the HC bill was handled and how the will of the American people was disregarded. November may be worse for the Dems than 1994 when Clinton tried to take the country too far to the left. Obama makes Clinton look conservative. Go ahead and have fun making fun of this post but you all will be crying November 3.
Yeah, his healthcare plan modeled after Bob Dole's is totally left-wing extremist. We get it. You think the GOP will make gains in November. Fine. When will you STFU with your declarations of victory in November? It's all hypothetical. If that's the only backing you have to fall back on, you're really, really sad. I pity you. I just don't want to see idiots be elected. Right now, the many of the elected Republicans are looking like idiots, to me. Replace 'em (or idiot Dems) with critical thinking Republicans like Scott Brown, and I'll be quite happy. All I want is smart, intelligent people.
The Health care bill did not go against the will of the people in the strictest sense. The people were in favor of all the individual measures included in that bill. And even if Obama and the Dems did decide to not govern by the poles which was supposedly a good thing in the last presidency, isn't that just showing leadership? I think the economy will play a role in costing the Dems some seats in the midterm elections. The only thing that could reverse that is the Republicans still attempting to repeal health care.
I would hope they wouldn't govern the by poles... One country's problems at a time, if you please. :grin:
The Tea Party is really destroying the republicans - it's like the gift that keeps on giving. The deep irony of the Tea Party of course is that by all the fuss they caused, they actually prevented Republicans from working with Democrats to put for a bill that would do a better job of cutting costs and capture some sort of conservative values. I honestly think the Tea Party is scaring independents and turning people off the republican party. How many former Republicans turned Independents are here? I'm one (I'm now considered a "liberal" by the Tea Party nut-cases. Funny thing is Liberals say I am a conservative). Republicans have to stand up to the Tea Party - or what might look like big gains for Repubs in Nov may turn out to be losses. There's a long time for public mood to move and it's going to now that health care reform (or rather heath care insurance reform) has been passed.
I don't think the Tea Party in general is bad. The problem is that there are some right wing nut cases in the movement. These nut cases end up getting camera time thus making the entire movement look bad. This happens on both sides of the political spectrum. A few radical nut jobs should not define the views of everyone in a movement whether it be on the left or right because most of the people are not radical.
So you're okay with the thread purpose in general and the thread title in particular but you are chagrined about dissenting opinion? Okay....
There are nuts on both sides of the spectrum. However the left doesn't cut gas lines in Senator's homes possibly leaving them and their family to blow up. The left doesn't invite someone to the Democratic convention to give a racist speech. The left doesn't have racist signs at almost every single rally. The left doesn't shout racist things at GOP senators and spit on them. The left doesn't shout homophobic slurs at gay senators while scores of people around them laugh like it's funny. Don't act like both sides are equal in this. The left does have people who act beyond reason, and call the President a Nazi, and fascist etc. You are right that every movement does have radical crazy types, but the tea party allows it to continue, and even officially has the leading speaker at their convention give a racist speech. It isn't just a few bad apples. The tea party as a whole either condones the behavior or isn't doing enough to weed it out. I haven't seen any shame on the part of tea baggers for what they've done and their behavior recently. If it was just a few nutcases why officially invite someone who is going to give a racist speech at your convention and not ever come out against what he was saying. The guy was actually applauded and cheered at the convention.
Allow me to reference myself referring to a similar situation where thumbs tried to compare tea party lunatics with G20 protestors: (Aside: Is it just me or are the "debates" in here lately downright repetitious?) And furthermore: (Aside part two: It appears that I can claim to be the originator of the "coffee party" idea. Oridinarily, I'd ask for royalties, but in this instance I'll let it slide)
Calling myself a "former Republican" isn't really accurate, but for a very very long time (almost 20 years), I voted for them 90% of the time. What turned me was the 2004 presidential election when GWB and minions continually attacked John Kerry on a personal basis. It was totally disgusting to me. I didn't like Kerry either and ended up not voting for either candidate, but the behavior was trash. In 2008, I thought there was hope when McCain was nominated but he proceeded to douse himself with gasoline by hiring Steve Schmidt and bringing up Paris Hilton in his campaign against Obama, among other things. The stake was driven in when he chose Sarah Palin. I couldn't believe it. Republican behavior since Obama's election has basically guaranteed that I will be fervently anti-GOP forever. In my book what they've done is unforgivable. The Tea Party fruitcakes have just cemented things. I still don't like Dems but my animosity towards them isn't even close. I long for the day when guys like William F. Buckley could say that conservatives would call you dense but liberals would attack your character when you disagreed with them. The (true) implication at the time was that conservatives wanted to debate ideas while liberals KNEW they were right and you had to be morally flawed to disagree with them. That worm has completely switched sides. "Socialized medicine", "pulling the plug on grandma", birthers & much more prove that.
Well done rhad. I should book mark that, because these same discussions keep coming up. Next time, I will just use these quotes because they say very nicely a lot of the points that there are to try to make in these discussions.
