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Representing myself in court tomorrow.

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout' started by jcee15, Jun 23, 2008.

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  1. ClutchCityReturns

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    From what I see in the satellite view, it looks like you might be able to drive straight across. I even photoshopped one of the parked cars into the "lane" created by the red lines. It seem to fit.

    [​IMG]
     
  2. jcee15

    jcee15 Member

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    Nope. I couldn't there was a car taking a left from the other side of traffic.
    Is signage necessary?
     
  3. jcee15

    jcee15 Member

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    Clutchcity coming through in the clutch. I might use that that pic of yours in court tomorrow. I am gonna go and measure that tonight along with some photos and maybe some footage of some cars taking the turn.
    I really appreciate the drawings ccr :)
     
  4. Surfguy

    Surfguy Member

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    there's no way that is a legal turn. somehow, i don't think your defense of "i'm a poor student. why would i intentionally break a traffic law in front of a cop?" defense is going to get you off, i.e. the sympathy card. good luck, though, and let us know what happens.
     
  5. jcee15

    jcee15 Member

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    It might work. I'd have to pay a fine anyway. Plus, this is the only ticket I have gotten that I feel wasn't right. Me going 25 miles over the speed limit yes, no problem. Me running a red light, check. I genuinely didn't know what I did wrong when he pulled up to my window.
     
  6. Refman

    Refman Member

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    He could make it high tech by illustrating the scene using a Lite-Brite. :D
     
  7. Oski2005

    Oski2005 Member

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    Well, your defense of not knowing it was illegal will not hold up. Looking at the pics, streetview, etc, personally, it looks so close either way that I would not tempt fate if a cop was around, especially after he went went further down the street into a different entrance.
     
  8. Classic

    Classic Member

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    Pretty crappy ticket you got there. If you make your case, and he isn't buying it, you can always ask to take defensive driving. I don't remember that at all from any of the defensive driving classes I've taken (what you got a ticket for) but that can be your last request. Not knowing and knowingly doing something wrong sounds like an ample reason to allow you to take defensive driving. You also get 5% off your insurance so it can pay for itself after a while. Def. a BS ticket, good luck.
     
  9. codell

    codell Member

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    I may be wrong (and probably am), but I think DD is only an option @ arraignment or up to the trial. Once you go to trial, I believe that option is no longer available.
     
  10. rimrocker

    rimrocker Member

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    No, but you might mention it and then say "Your honor, if turning here is indeed a violation, I'd like to request a sign be put in place to enhance the safety of the intersection and prevent others from making the same mistake I did." Or something.

    Before that, I would argue that the intent of the law against "driving in the wrong lane" is clear and that while you don't think so, this may technically apply by a matter of inches. However, a reasonable person would not see it that way and furthermore, you were not operating your vehicle in an unsafe manner and there was no danger to the oncoming traffic. You were turning into a burger joint, you weren't trying to get on a freeway via the exit ramp.

    Furthermore, a reasonable person, seeing an opening in the median large enough to handle traffic from both directions and an entrance roughly aligned with that opening, would assume the road engineers had opened the median for the express purpose of accessing the businesses. That there are no signs and that many people routinely take this action would buttress the view that the intersection was designed properly.

    Talk to a few of the business owners or workers. Ask if there is an inordinate number of accidents at the intersection. Presumably, they will say "no." Then you can ask the cop the same thing. If he says "yes," you can counter with what the people who work there all day told you. If he says "no," you can say his answer shows the intersection is not inherently dangerous, even though from the tire marks it is clear many people do what you did. This will also help if the cop says it is a dangerous intersection and they routinely have accidents there. (Not to say cops would lie about stuff like that.)

    You can always tell bad intersections because they have lots of glass bits around the edges of the traffic flow. If you don't see any glass, take pictures.

    Be humble. Be deferential. Stay cool.
     
  11. jcee15

    jcee15 Member

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    Excellent post, rimrocker. I will express all of these points in relation to how how it's going in court tomorrow. Afterall, the manager seemed confused about the ticket and offered me a free meal.
    A reasonable judgement is all I want.
     
  12. Rashmon

    Rashmon Member

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    Just be sure to jump up a lot and scream, "I object!" a whole lot.

    Be sure to explain how you explained to the cop, "Why the hell would I, if I had known what I was going to do was illegal, commit a traffic violation in the plain sight of a police officer?"

    When he explains, "Ignorance of the law is no excuse, and one more outburst will result in contempt of court charges..."

    Interrupt him and say, "What the hell is contempt? I'll show you contempt!"

    They will think you're Perry Mason and let you go.
     
  13. God's Son

    God's Son Member

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    hahahahahaha hilarious :D do it do it do it :cool:
     
  14. 3814

    3814 Member

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    If you want a fair judgment - don't argue that you didn't know better. It doesn't matter whether you know traffic law or not, you have to abide by it.

    And forget the "I'm a poor college student" act as well, that won't fly in court.

    Stick with your guns. You have a case here...but stay with the facts - the pictures, the fact there's no sign, etc.

    Good luck!
     
  15. no_answer

    no_answer Member

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    GUILTY!

    You turned into the exit side of the driveway. People can't go around making traffic violations and get away with it, just because it wasn't that bad.

    When you pulled into the parking lot your phone could have started ringing, and then you would look do. Next, you would crash into me who was exiting! Just follow the law.

    The other day I was going to the story and I was driving 60 in a 45 and a cop pulled out of a parking lot and I got so scared! He went the other way though. :) :D

    Good luck with winning, but you were in the wrong.
     
  16. ClutchCityReturns

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    Just FYI, that's not the "exit". The drive through window is on the side of the building where he entered the lot, and it wraps around the building and spits you out to the other driveway (the one the cop entered through).
     
  17. ima_drummer2k

    ima_drummer2k Member

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    I'd go with something like this:

    Point of parliamentary procedure!

    Ladies and gentlemen, I'll be brief. The issue here is not whether I broke a few rules, or took a few liberties with traffic laws - I did. [wink at judge]

    But you can't hold a whole generation of poor college students responsible for the behavior of a few, sick twisted individuals. For if you do, then shouldn't we blame the whole college system? And if the whole college system is guilty, then isn't this an indictment of our educational institutions in general?

    I put it to you, Judge - isn't this an indictment of our entire American society?

    Well, you can do whatever you want to me, but I'm not going to sit here and listen to you badmouth the United States of America!!

    [march out humming the Star-Spangled Banner]
     
  18. SwoLy-D

    SwoLy-D Member

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    Sorry, but ClutchCity's interpretation "above-ground" doesn't show that the median has a piece of concrete which doesn't allow your car to fit.

    :eek: I believe you broke the law. If the officer saw that you went in a direction AGAINST the traffic, and you did, then you broke the WRONG WAY laws. You were facing WEST, and you turned SOUTH/WEST.

    MAYBE:
    [​IMG]

    MAYBE NO:
    [​IMG]

    http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=...cbp=1,619.8213683504063,,0,18.592494125886464

    Try the Street View and you'll see GUILTY written all over. Sorry, man :(
     
  19. SirCharlesFan

    SirCharlesFan Member

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    this sounds like a really good idea. Am I understanding your argument right? That, even though you did something illegal, you didn't know it was illegal, and if you knew it was illegal, you surely wouldn't have done it in front of a police officer? And this is why you should be let off the hook?

    Please go with the argument that other people are using..that it might be possible to make the left turn without driving the wrong way. Please, please, please don't use the argument that you shouldn't be found guilty because you didn't know what you weren't doing was against the law.
     
  20. jcee15

    jcee15 Member

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    Judge threw it out, lol. I guess cause the cop wasn't there. She told me to not ride on the wrong side of the road again as it was "dangerous" (hilarious) and told me that it was being dropped. I started to say, but I wasn't driving into oncoming traff...............didn't let myself finish the sentence. I just said thanks and went about my business. Thanks for all the replies guys....
     

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