Representation without Taxation: Should the poor be allowed to vote?

Well it depends. I don't want an idiotic, uneducated rambling moron to vote... ever. But voting is pretty much a right for every US citizen at this point. There's no way they can change that.

 

What if you're not poor and decide you need other people's money? After all, if your argument is correct, it's not being poor that's the problem, it's demanding other people's money.

Your dialogue is lifted straight from Rand's works, so you should remember that Rand writes that rich people can be moochers too. What about those people? Wouldn't it be more appropriate that these "moochers" (whomever they are) lose voting rights as opposed to the poor in general?

Heck, I have student loans. Does that mean I can't vote?

 

Absolutely.

I wouldn't necessarily classify a loan as the same thing as a straight handout, but sure it might qualify. But I'm opposed to federal funding of education in all forms (loans, grants, scholarships), except as a form of employment compensation like the GI Bill.

 

You could argue those programs were paid into so it's not mooching.

Why do think all these European countries are bankrupt? Why are our entitlement programs insolvent?

They are compensated for services rendered, it's not an entitlement, it's a paycheck.

Abolish all subsidies.

State needs to get out of the loan business. Why does the electrician with three kids pay for some kid to go to A&M? Dumb.

Deductions should be eliminated. But that's still not the same thing as a transfer of wealth entitlement check.

Not unworkable at all.

HR 1: "Any recepient of ENTITLEMENT X shall forfeit Y rights for Z duration". What X is applicable would be up for debate.

 

wow! You are crazy

 

how so?

 

No argument there, but that's how these programs were/are sold to the public.

 

Ah, but I'm not from Circle C! I'm from Southeast Houston. I merely live in Circle C, and because of the schools (the "curse of kids"), although had I known DD was camped out in the neighborhood, I would have thought twice, I can tell you! ;-D-

 

You should watch this episode of the Simpsons.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treehouse_of_Horror_VII#Citizen_Kang

The problem today isn't that people don't vote. But rather we only have 2 parties and they get to set basically the agenda. One side says we should get punched in the face, and the other side says we should get lightly punched in the face. No one brings up the possibility of not screwing regular people over.

That was the first thing I thought when this whole debate started. Also if you rent a place, aren't indirectly paying property taxes?

If this law goes into effect, I can see people buying like a square mm of a piece of land in the middle of nowhere so they can be "property owners".

 

The only candidate who might really shake things up is Ron Paul. Everyone else is just the same old same old special interests.

 

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to Hell

 

It's not fantasy, it's an arithmetic certainty.

We've been living beyond our means for decades. Sure we've voted in some people who say the right things and so far seem to be voting the right way, but it's not nearly enough. Entitlements still remain on an insolvent trajectory (how does it not bother you guys that Obama doesn't care about this at all?).

The one hopeful sign is here we peacefully protest government doing too much, whereas in Europe they riot when they aren't getting free stuff.

 

You would have to amend the constitution to make the changes your suggesting commodore.

 

Huh? I though Obama does care. That's why he want to stop all the subsidies to corporations raking in billions of dollars and not creating any jobs(see other thread about unemployment).

I mean, if you run out of money. Do you go take back the money you lend to your billionaire friend or the one who can barely make his rent? You have to take microwaves and coffee-makers from a lot of poor people in order to get the same funds that you can get by just making the richest people in the world actually pay some taxes.

 

Alright. So it's good to see that your priorities have been re-adjusted, and now you understand that if you're going to support any such proposals, it needs to be against moochers, not just a blanket war against the poor.

Now how the hell do you activate this voting war against those people?

Furthermore, you're basically saying, "anyone who votes to expand the government should lose their voting rights." How could this possibly go wrong?

Paul will definitely invoke that Chinese saying of "May you live in interesting times", I'll give you that.

1. I've always viewed it as a struggle within the parties more than anything - the parties are big tents, after all, but it means that there is going to be struggle within those very parties, like we see in primaries. It's why I still consider myself a Republican even though I spend more time fighting extremists like basso or gwyaneco as opposed to Sam or Carl.

2. How do parties set an agenda without the will of the people? There's been an long interest in reforming our health care system - Obama works on it. There's an interest in helping the Libyans out - Obama does it. There was not an interest in reforming SS back in 2005 - Bush's plan crashed and burned.

3. The problem I've always had with the third party thing - is why hasn't this mythical moderate third party appeared anyways? You may argue that campaign restrictions/ social and political inertia represent a disadvantage to third parties. However - when was the last time there was an actual moderate third party anyways? From George Wallace to Ross Perot to Libertarians to Ralph Nader to god knows what the hell the Tea Party's going to do, third parties in our political system have pretty much represented extremest viewpoints. I mean, we HAVE a third party now, in a sense. And you don't like that third party, and I sure as hell don't. The desire for third parties comes out of the fact that we somehow think this society needs to be more democratic - a desire which I grow continually more skeptical about, the more I see how politics works today.

 

Hey now grandpa, my brown yard is making yours look that much better.



DD