So why is Kobe making more money now than he was earlier in his career? Is he in his prime now? The only way being in your prime relates to this convo is the ability to get a top contract. As I have already shown, Pierce and KG still commanded prime money. Give it up dude. I guarantee you LeBron will when his ends. He didn't take a reduction in years. He would have received the same amount of years. The same goes for KG when he turned down his extra $30M and Duncan when he turned down his extra $12M. I possibly could but don't feel like looking for it. I already spent time looking for the ones I posted. I don't see why Boston would not have offered it though, since him accepting the trade was one of the conditions of him coming there. Your original and current stance is clinging to a variable that means jack in this case. It doesn't matter if a player is in his prime or not. Being younger allows you to turn down money because the chances are higher that you can get it again, which is exactly what the Miam trio did when they didn't sign full extensions with their original teams and everyone thought they were taking a huge risk. It's riskier for a dude to turn down big money as an older player than a younger one, and it's silly to argue otherwise. Dudes have been leaving big money on the tables to win. You're trying to discount it based on BS rhetoric. And this may be the first time I've ever heard someone argue that a 30-31 yr old player that's still leading teams to titles is past his prime.
As I've stated before, when evaluating a contract, you don't just look at how much a player is making per year. You also have to factor in the length of the contract. What you've shown is that elite players who are past their prime are still commanding prime money, but not for extended periods of time. I doubt it. By then, he should have a lot of mileage on his body. Look at Garnett and Kobe. They both came out of high school, and when they were in their early 30's, they were getting contract extensions for 2-3 years. And you think Lebron will get a maximum length contract? You don't get it. The reduction in years is inherent b/c Garnett is no longer in his prime. Right now, he's on the last year of a 3-year $60mm extension. There's a reason he wasn't given a longer extension. Also, you don't want to admit that the offer never existed. You don't see why Boston wouldn't have offered it? I do. It's really simple. Why pay $90mm for something when you can pay $60mm? See? Simplicity itself. The variable of "prime" players is crucial to this argument. No one cared when Garnett/Pierce/Allen teamed up. No one cared when Olajuwon/Barkley/Pippen teamed up either. But there was an uproar when James/Wade/Bosh teamed up. Why do you think so many owners are pushing for rules that will prevent future superteams? It was common knowledge that James/Wade/Bosh would get max money regardless of where they went. Please point out where I said anything similar to this. My point was that a player places more importance on the value of the 5-6 year contract that correlates to his prime as opposed to the 2-3 year extension that he receives afterwards. Hmm...I guess you really haven't followed the NBA in a while. Kobe was 31 when he won his last title, and he was clearly past his prime. Garnett was 31 when he won his title, and he was clearly past his prime. And FWIW, the corpse of Tracy McGrady is 31 right now.
Then why did the Heat trio all decline the full 5 year max deals from their original teams and only take the 3 year options? They were all in their primes and it was their first shot at a max contract. Didn't they take a huge injury risk by not signing the longer deals? Those 3 did EXACTLY what you swear athletes won't do. And then they did it again when they signed with Miami (LeBron and Bosh agreed to go there without the S&T). FWIW, Malone won both of his MVP's after he was 31. He was considered arguably the game's best player at that time. Some will say Dirk was at his best last year, when he was 32. Some say Hakeem's was at his peak when he led us to titles, in his early 30's. We could go on and on. Again, this may be the first I've heard of a 31 yr old dude being past his prime.
WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski David Stern has fined Miami Heat owner Micky Arison $500,000 for Friday tweets on the lockout, league sources tell Y! Sports.
They declined the 5 year max deals from their original teams b/c they had colluded together to team up in Miami in 2010. But yes, they did take an injury risk. Didn't both James and Bosh get to Miami via sign and trades? We could go on and on, but that doesn't change the fact that you're wrong. In any case, I think you're misunderstanding my point again. I'm not saying that all 31 year olds are past their prime. Its on a case by case basis. Kobe, Garnett, McGrady, Jermaine O'Neal, and Rashard Lewis were all clearly past their primes when they turned 31. And like Lebron James, they all came straight out of high school.
So in other words, they did exactly what you claim no in prime athlete would do? LeBron risked $20M by giving up those extra 2 years. And do you realize you are arguing that 3 guys who colluded together for years (according to you) wouldn't have taken a heftier paycut to play together? What were they colluding for then? They were both prepared to sign without the S&T. They were willing to leave the extra year on the table to play together. Yes we can continue to go back and forth but it's pointless, because dudes have turned down big $$ to play together, even in accordance with your silly "in prime" stipulation (see the Heat trio).
That doesn't actually make sense at all if you're talking risk. The risk monetary wise is net worth related, an old player like KG with a net worth in the 100-200m range is infinitely less than a younger version of himself when his net worth might have been 20, heck players like Kobe and KG should and probably are making an extra 5-10m if not more on the investments of their salaries.
Are you really arguing net worth with professional athletes, when studies show that the majority of them go broke soon after their careers are over? A young player has a shot at another big payday. When Pierce and KG gave up those large sums they knew it was going to be their last time to earn that type of money. $30M is $30M, period. Either way, would you agree that's it's risk enough for both that it doesn't make sense to put some "im prime" stipulation on when dudes turn down say, $30M, for a chance to win?
MarkBermanFox26 Mark Berman Chuck Hayes: both sides in lockout are being hardheaded in standing their ground. He says it's like 2 brothers fighting over the last piece
Nope. Not at all. I said substantial paycuts. Risking $20mm is very different than taking a $20mm paycut. And in my example, I said that if the Rockets offered Bosh $15mm/year and the Heat offered him $10mm, he'd have joined the Rockets. You disagreed. I don't understand your point. If their objective to play together, wouldn't it be in their best interest to play together while earning as much money as possible? Yeah, that's garbage. If you believe that, I've got a bridge to sell you. Everyone knew that Toronto and Cleveland weren't going to lose their franchise players without getting something in return. Ok, I'm seeing the Heat trio. And I'm seeing them make max money. What's your point?
Sorry, but the "prime" stipulation is crucial. Like I said before, no one cares if players past their primes team up for one last hurrah, but there was a lot of anger when James/Wade/Bosh teamed up. Look at the projected terms of the new CBA. It's designed to prevent anymore "superfriends" unless they take substantial paycuts. And a player in his prime is simply not going to take a substantial paycut. Common sense, right?
I laugh at anybody who says the players are irreplaceable. There was basketball before LeBron and these other douchebags and there will be basketball after these guys. It's called the NBA Draft. It happens every year.
If you believe Aldridge then the owners are offering 47% of BRI with a supertax system, or 50% of BRI with a hardcap. No wonder the players are saying no, if this is true. http://www.nba.com/2011/news/features/david_aldridge/10/31/nba-lockout-next-steps/?ls=iref:nbahpt1
WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski The NBA and NBPA are discussing possibility of returning federal mediator George Cohen to labor talks this week, sources tell Y! Sports
WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski So far, there's been no new bargaining session scheduled between the owners and players.
Great point. There will be always be replacements. An old saying comes to mind. "The cemeteries of the world are full of indispensable men." -Charles De Gaulle
