The card says Moops. ------------------ "We messed with the Bull, and we got the horns." -- Larry Brown "quote" from AirBullard.com
Classic ------------------ If the 3 pointer was banned by the nba, No amount of money would make him stay. Air Bullard, Air Buuuuuulllll, Air Buuuullll Can't stop Bull.
NO MONEY...NO WAY !!! Every single person on this planet has ancestors that were slaves at one point. The Greeks, Romans, Summarians, Egyptians, Germans, English, Chinese, all were conquered and enslaved at one time in history. We need to get over it, I am 1/4 Indian, and actually qualify for over $1,500 a month from my reservations casino, do I take it? No !! Becuase I am 3/4 white, and do not need the money, it is for other people that need it more. My point is that we need to get over the race thing, SKIN color, culture, etc all are irrelevant to us as human beings. Each individual should be judged by the same standards, and as long as there are laws that give benefits to one race over another, there will be resentment. If we just quit enacting laws and let nature take its course, the human race would sort it all out eventually. Racism = Ignorance. DaDakota [This message has been edited by DaDakota (edited April 01, 2001).]
DaDakota Out of curiosity, which casino? Also, if you were a full blooded Indian, would you be entitled to over $6000 per month? Thanks ------------------
I'm not against this anyway because it will help improve life for many americans without giving them a handout. However, I don't think it should be in any way connected to slavery of the past by calling it "reparations." ------------------
Great article, River...where did you get it? #9 is great, as Sfr said, but is not enough. DaDa...those slavery situations of which you are speaking were a different animal. Usually militarily conquered peoples and it did not create a stigma that has lasted to the present time. People definitley need to get over slavery...but that cannot be done until there is true closure. Until it is realistically and fully addressed. just saying, "get over it...it was a long time ago." Doesn;t cut it when this thing that was "so long ago" is still defining our culture, society, politics, etc. ------------------ Whitey will pay.
Try telling that to the Jews. Or you could try telling that to the Welsh, Scottish, and Irish in reference to how they feel they are treated by the English as a whole, to this very day. My lineage is Scottish, English, Welsh, and Irish. Maybe I should sue myself. ------------------ "The idea of a band nowadays is five pretty boys, one with a tattoo, one with a shaved head, and on and on. I mean, I like Britney Spears, I think she's pretty, but I'm not from the Mickey Mouse Club. I'm from the Godzilla club!" ---Ozzy Osbourne [This message has been edited by Lynus302 (edited April 01, 2001).]
Rimbaud, It does not shape our society today, that is a HUGE leap. Slavery was abolished over 135 years ago, there is not ONE person alive on this planet who experienced it. Is there Racism today, you bet, EVERYWHERE ! My point is to really get over racism, we have to quit recognizing skin tone as any sort of advantage or disadvantage. We are all created equal, now lets start acting like it. DaDakota ------------------ If you like RTS games, check out this one. www.frontierwars.com coming soon to a PC near you.
I'm sure what you mean is, there is no slavery in america anymore. because the sad fact is that despite the fact that we preach equality, there are more slaves in the world today than at any other time ever. ------------------
So am I to beleive that Skin tone *is* not a disadvantage today? or Am I to simply not Recognize that it is . .[i.e. Stick my head in the sand] Rocket River ------------------
No, You are just supposed to act like it does not matter, which it doesn't. If we just let it work itself out, rather then legislate it out, then it will be gone quicker. All programs that legislate, based on race, are doing is creating resentment. What the heck is affirmative action? That is ridiculous, hire a person on merit alone. Let's look at an example, if a white guy is racist and refuses to hire a better qualified man because he is black, then his business will suffer because he got the lesser man. While the business man, or woman that hires the best candidate REGARDLESS of skin tone will benefit far beyond the racist business man/woman. Eventually the racist business man/woman will be out of business. Treat people as equals, no leg up for someone based on skin tone. Meritocracy, the only way to go... DaDakota ------------------ If you like RTS games, check out this one. www.frontierwars.com coming soon to a PC near you.
March 30, 2001 Ten Reasons Why Considering Reparations is a Good Idea for Americans, and Horowitz Too By Earl Ofari Hutchinson <ehutchi344@aol.com> Conservative muckraker David Horowitz has been verbally mugged for peddling an ad to college newspapers giving ten reasons why reparations is racist. But the name callers have done little more than canonize Horowitz as a martyr for truth and free speech. Even worse, they've failed miserably to tell why reparations merits a serious look. There are ten compelling reasons it does. 1. The U.S. government, not long dead Southern planters bears the blame for slavery. It encoded it in the Constitution in article one. This designated a black slave as three-fifths of a person for tax and political representation purposes. It protected and nourished it in article four by mandating that all escaped slaves found anywhere in the nation be returned to their masters. In the Dred Scott decision in 1857, the U.S. Supreme Court reaffirmed that slaves remained slaves no matter where they were taken in the United States. 2. Major institutions profited from slavery. In October, the California state legislature passed a bill requiring insurance companies to disclose whether they wrote policies insuring slaves. This was recognition that insurance companies made profits insuring slaves as property. The insurance industry was not the only culprit. Banks, shipping companies, and investment houses also made enormous profits from financing slave purchases, investments in Southern land and products, and the transport, and sale of slaves. 3. Slavery ended in 1865 but the legacy of slavery still remains. A report by the National Conference for Community and Justice, a Washington D.C. public policy group in 2000, found that blacks are still the major economic and social victims of racial discrimination. They are far more likely to live in underserved segregated neighborhoods, be refused business and housing loans, be denied promotions in corporations and attend cash starved, failing public schools than whites. 4. There's a direct cost for slavery's legacy. Former Federal Reserve Board Chairman Andrew Brimmer estimates that discrimination costs blacks $10 billion yearly through the black-white wage gap, denial of capital access, inadequate public services, and reduced social security and other government benefits. This has been called the "black tax." 5. The U.S. government has shelled out billions since the 1960s to pay for resettlement, job training, education, and health programs for refugees fleeing Communist repression. Politicians and the majority of the public enthusiastically backed these payments as the morally and legally right thing to do. 6. The reparations issue will not fuel more hatred of blacks. Most Americans admit that slavery was a morally monstrous system that wreaked severe pain and suffering on America. City councils in Chicago, Dallas, Oakland, and Los Angeles, and other cities in the past year have passed resolutions supporting a federal commission to study reparations. Also, there was no national outcry when the U.S. government made special indemnity payments, provided land and social service benefits to Japanese-Americans interned during World War II, Native-Americans for the theft of lands and mineral rights, and Philippine veterans who fought with the American army during World War II. 7. No legislation has been proposed that mandates taxpayers pay billions to blacks. A bill by Michigan Democrat John Conyers that has languished in Congress since 1993 simply establishes a commission to study the effects of slavery. The estimated cost is less than $10 million. 8. There is a precedent for paying blacks for past legal and moral wrongs. In 1997 Clinton apologized and the U.S. government paid $10 million to the black survivors and family members victimized by the syphilis experiment conducted in the 1930's by the U.S. Public Health Service. In 1994, the Florida legislature agreed to make payments to the survivors and relatives of those who lost their lives and property when a white mob destroyed the all-black town of Rosewood in 1923. The carnage was tacitly condoned by public officials and law enforcement officers. The Oklahoma state legislature is currently considering reparations payments to the survivors and their descendants of the destruction of black neighborhoods in Tulsa by white mobs in 1921. 9. Oprah Winfrey, Bill Cosby, Michael Jordan and other mega-rich blacks will not receive a penny in reparations. Any tax money to redress black suffering should go into a fund to bolster funding for AIDS/HIV education and prevention, underfinanced inner-city public schools, to expand job skills and training, drug and alcohol counseling and rehabilitation, computer access and literacy training programs, and to improve public services for the estimated one in four blacks still trapped in poverty. 10. Thirty years ago a writer passionately argued that the U.S. government has kept the "black ghettos in a colonial status since Reconstruction" and refused to meet the "most basic political and economic demands of the black movement." That writer was David Horowitz. He made the argument in his book, Empire and Revolution, a blistering indictment of the U.S. government. Radical hyperbole notwithstanding, Horowitz recognized then that America owed a debt to black America for past and present sins. It still does. -- Earl Ofari Hutchinson is the President of The National Alliance for Positive Action <http://www.natalliance.org> ------------------
Oprah Winfrey, Bill Cosby, Michael Jordan and other mega-rich blacks will not receive a penny in reparations. Any tax money to redress black suffering should go into a fund to bolster funding for AIDS/HIV education and prevention, underfinanced inner-city public schools, to expand job skills and training, drug and alcohol counseling and rehabilitation, computer access and literacy training programs, and to improve public services for the estimated one in four blacks still trapped in poverty. As was mentioned before in this thread, people would generally support these programs if asked. But, in my opinion, when you couch these payments as reparations, it turns the vast majority of people off. (Despite what the long list says about these reparations not engendering resentment, the vast majority of people do not support the idea of reparations, according to recent polls) So, instead of getting people to support these investments in poor communities (which are not all Black, by the way. There are many poor whites, Hispanics, etc. living in inner city neighborhoods and attending underfunded schools in inner cities), we end up seeing a political debate in which most people DON'T support the investment. Seems to me that having the discussion be about payback for things that happened before my great-great-grandparents were even born makes it harder to support the actual goal, which is a better use of resources in the inner cities. But if we're going to say these payments are reparations, then we should subtract out the value of any race-based advantages that have been popular over the last 40 years or so. Things like Affirmative Action and Minority Contracting Requirements were set up to atone ofr past wrongs, as well. If there are going to be reparations made, they should be net payments, not gross (and I would think that history should be taken into account, too. Certainly many African-American fortunes would have been wiped out in the Depression in the same way that many White Americans' fortunes were. My Great grandmother's family was relatively weathy before the Depression, but they lost everything during the Depression. Other than my father, who is self made, the remnants of the family are barely middle class anymore in most instances). And should we consider any self-destructive behavior within the African-American community as a mitigating factor in any reparation payments? There would be some African-Americans in poverty regardless of whether there had ever been slavery or racism. Some people (regardless of race) remain in poverty (or fall into poverty) largely due to their behavior or their bad choices. Should there be an offset from reparations payments for that? In the end, I support the goal that these "reparations" are supposed to achieve (better use of resources in inner cities to improve schools, communities, etc. Block grants and all that). But I'm against it if we're going to actually say we're making these investments because of slavery. And I think there are better ways of getting these investments made. Making it a discussion about reparations merely means that the vast majority of Americans will oppose making the investment. ------------------ Houston Sports Board [This message has been edited by mrpaige (edited April 02, 2001).]
DaDakota The problem is. . MEANWHILE the black folx are suffering while the system 'rights' itself with jobs inferior to their skill set because of racist attitudes It seem as long as blacks take the blow on this IT'S OK But when you flip it so that it falls on white folx. . .well that is a problem Rocket River ------------------
Rocket River: The problem with all the arguments of the pro-reparation people is that it's based on technical issues. They can be categorized as follows: 1. Precedents for reparations. Answer: So what? Even if similar things have been done before, that doesn't mean the decision was good. That's not justification. 2. Black people are suffering as a result of past wrongs. Really? Irish people were persecuted by the Brits for even longer, but they seem to be doing fine. And if you don't think there's not any bias, you should visit or read about Southie sometime. Besides, this isn't justification for redress on the basis of a category. 3. Slavery made money for white people and the US government. So, the Japanese immigrants really deserve to shell out big bucks for slavery? Yeah, really convincing. An argument that slavery built modern institutions simply isn't convincing. Now, these reasons never go to justification. You simply cannot justify reparations metaphysically. Reparations still create artificial and unfair categories; people shouldn't receive something on such a basis. It's not valid. Similarly, reparations still require that we view past action according to a moral framework that really couldn't have existed at the time. Morality is fundamentally grounded temporally in history, and you can't reinterpret all of history punitively according to current standards. That's metaphysically silly. Refer to my prior post for a fuller explanation of my views. Most arguments have still not been touched by the pro-reparation side... it's just all a knee-jerk sympathy plea without any true grounds in logic. ------------------ Boston College - Big East -East Division Regular Season Champs Worst to First in 2001!
Originally posted by Lynus302: Originally posted by Rocket River: You've missed the point. Why should you get a big bag of money? Why are you so special? The point I was trying to reinforce is that every ethnic and cultural group has been a slave of some sort at some point in time. Over 150 years ago, a war was fought (that killed many of my ancestors) to free the slaves. Reparations will only serve to widen the racial gap here in America. If you want to know what this has to do with America, I offer this: Irish-, Scottish-, Welsh-, and Jewish- Americans (and countless other hyphenated-Americans) have been discriminated against here in one form or another by someone else. ------------------ "The idea of a band nowadays is five pretty boys, one with a tattoo, one with a shaved head, and on and on. I mean, I like Britney Spears, I think she's pretty, but I'm not from the Mickey Mouse Club. I'm from the Godzilla club!" ---Ozzy Osbourne
Honestly I don't think that is possible the only thing that will happen is that white folx will be as pissed as black folx are now I mean . . .as long as *you* are not pissed. . .everything is ok Rocket river ------------------
actually it's only been 140 years since the Civil War began. 10+ years may not sound like much of a difference but try spending even half of those years as a slave. some idiot on CNN Talkback Live wrote in "why should we care about what happened over 200 years ago?". ------------------ [This message has been edited by outlaw (edited April 02, 2001).]
