Remember when - Brand, Artest & Brad Miller were Bulls?

Point noted. But there are degrees of badness, you realise.

What I meant is that they didn't go from a 20-25 win team to a 10 win team for instance... and in any case, if you are a player worth ur salt, there's no way you are on a 20 win team.

That said, TMac is confounding...

 

Actually, T-Mac's team is better than Brand's team, imo. Maybe T-Mac isn't really an impact player as his numbers show.

It's really hard to judge a player's worth by win-loss records. There are so many variables--management, coach, teammates, chemistry, etc.

 

True as that might be, there are patterns which do present themselves. When all things are even and a trade is made, you are able to get a sense of what a player is worth. Case in point: Rasheed Wallace.

Then there are the cases of addition by subtraction. Case in point: Ricky Davis from the Cavs.

 

Rasheed Wallace is another puzzling case. Yes, Detroit seems to be better with him. But Portland didn't get worse without him. Actually, they were better. How do you figure?

 

the bulls also had trenton hassell and fred hoiberg which are pretty decent role players. DUMB BULLS!!!

 

Detroit got better because they did not give away any current talent.
Portland got better because they got at least equal talent back that better fit team needs plus some team chemistry.

The team not considered was Atlanta. I do not think they got better, but they are in a better position for the long run.

 

I know. The point I was answering was that some players put up great numbers but didn't impact the win-loss records. I said it's really hard to judge how a player impacts their records because there are so many variables. T-Mac is one example. Rasheed is another.

Rasheed had good numbers with the Blazers. But he didn't make them good. Ratliff and SAR had good numbers in Atlanta. They didn't make the Hawks good. But suddenly they make Portland better. And SAR also has the reputation of getting good numbers but can't win. Go figure.

 

That's a very good point actually. Perhaps I should modify my point to: Some players operate better - due to their personalities - as the star. While others operate better in a backup role.

Drawing a soccer analogy, there have been some superb players, who coaches hesitate to pick - Roberto Baggio, Juan Sebastian Veron - and I've always wondered why. The truth came out when a coach said of Matthew Le Tissier (another soccer genius), "For him to be effective, the team has to be built around him (meaning most balls should go thru him). When your team is built around him, you don't have a very good team."

Back to bball. Maybe that is the case with SAR and Brand. Or perhaps Portland winning has more to do with emotional certainty of being the first option for Randolph (like Lebron in Cleveland). Either way, I do see your point. However, mine is that some players show better attributes for winning than others. I wouldn't be all that excited if we managed to get Brand or SAR or Antoine Walker because they have to get their touches to succeed and if that happens - based upon historical trends - we just will not have a very good team.

 

That's my point also. Towards the end of this past season, the Clippers had a 10+ game losing streak. At some point during such a long losing streak, shouldn't a player of Brand's abilities carry his team to at least one win. Think of how many times the Clippers have been blown out, yet Brand has 20 points, 10+ boards, and a few blocks. SAR is the same type of player. They put up good numbers but they don't do the extra things to win a game, whether it be a key shot, a key board, steal, or whatever. They don't show any extra effort in those key moments when a game can be won or lost.

 

Brand for Franchise would be a nice trade for both teams. The Clippers could put Chris Wilcox at PF to replace Brand and we could dump MoT somewhere for a decent guard. I'm not sure if moving Cuttino back to PG would work, but it'd be nice to have a frontcourt player with some toughness for a change.