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Remember the good old days?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Will, Apr 3, 2003.

  1. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    Pardon me, but you are so absolutely and totally full of ****.
    Why don't you peddle that somewhere else??

    Seriously.
     
  2. montelwilliams

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    The truth hurts, doesn't it?
     
  3. MManal

    MManal Member

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    I think its comical that a significant amount of a thread is being devoted to dealing Francis for Kidd, and the tone by some is that it would be a go if the Rockets wanted it. Ofcourse the Rockets would deal Francis for Kidd if the opportunity presented itself, Kidd is the #1 PG in the NBA and would get this team to 50-55 wins imo. The problem is actually being able to pull this off, there are way too many variables at play here. First off, Steve Francis will be 50% BYC this summer which will make trading very complicated; in addition, Kidd would be absolutely crazy to pick Houston over SA. If Kidd lands in SA, you can pencil them in for the title next season. Also, I seriously doubt SA is going to choose Kandi over Kidd.

    Im not opposed to dealing Francis instead of Mobley (the duo needs to be broken up in some way), but I never suggest it b/c the odds are slim to none of getting equal value for Francis. Jason Kidd is a pipe dream and would have less than 10% of happening imo. The other possibility which would be fair value is Elton Brand, but I wonder if the Clipps would take on Francis's max dollars to get that done. Other than that, there simply are not any realistic options out there where this team can receive fair value for Francis.

    I find it amusing that certain hard core Mobley lovers are trying to pin the blame squarely on Francis. Um, Mobley is as much of a problem as Francis except Steve is a better player. This whole idea of Mobley becoming a good off the ball player this season is a complete myth made up by Mobley lovers. Cuttino's effectiveness declines a TON when he has to play off the ball; he still takes a number of his isolation jacks to get into the flow of the game.
     
  4. windandsea

    windandsea Member

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  5. windandsea

    windandsea Member

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    NEW ORLEANS - The ever-changing Jason Kidd barometer swung strongly in the Nets' direction Wednesday when he declared he's "100 percent to stay" in New Jersey.

    He offered a caveat with that, saying he still plans to "play out" the free agent process, which begins July 1. Still, as Kidd continues to ebb and flow with his remarks about his future, this is one of his strongest statements yet.

    "I've said my intentions are to stay in New Jersey," he said Wednesday before he and his teammates played the Hornets. "That's my No. 1 choice, so we'll play it out and see what happens. I'm 100 percent to stay. My intentions are to stay. But we'll see what happens."
     
  6. craziaries

    craziaries Member

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    That post makes me gently weep.
    God bless those days.
    I wouldn't have basketball without them.
     
  7. Houstone

    Houstone Member

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    Oh look what we have here, the great Nostradamus predicting the future of the rockets, how about Nostradumbass?
     
  8. Newgirl

    Newgirl Member

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    I agree that it mainly depends on your superstar players but shouldn't we let Yao develop into a superstar first and see if Francis can work out with him before getting rid? I mean I don't think that Minnesota and Garnett never regreted the Marbury trade. I am certainly not opposed against trading for Kidd though (but deep down I know it's unlikely for Kidd choosing us over NJ and SA). But at this stage I probably would not consider another unproven star (i.e. Brand, Milicic etc). As Minnesota proved it, swapping unproven stars could be very very risky.
     
  9. GATER

    GATER Member

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    MManal -
    It's not as simplistic as you've made it.

    The Spurs have only 4 players under contract for 2003-2004. Parker, Ginobili and Bowen plus Duncan has a one year player option. Surely a Kidd/Duncan combo is formidable, but if you spend the entire wad on Kidd, realistically how good is this team?

    1) Kidd / Parker
    2) Parker / Ginobili
    3) Bowen
    4) Duncan
    5) Willis @ $1m / Bateer @ $500k

    As you know, since they were under the cap and then went over, they get no MLE. My estimate is they would have about $10m to fill out the remainder beyond Kidd and the already signed 4. Add a guaranteed 1st rounder + Willis + Bateer and that number drops to $8m for 4 - 7 roster spots.

    I have no argument that landing Kidd would be a pipedream, but I'm not sure (from a Spurs standpoint) that putting all your eggs in one basket is worth the risk.
     
  10. TheFreak

    TheFreak Member

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    Chances are, this is correct. There have only been 4 champions in the past 12 years. There were only 3 in the 80s. Basically if you go back 23 years, there have only been like 8 champions, that's if you count the Lakers twice. It also took Hakeem 11 years I think to win a ring. Yao is not as good as Hakeem. Houston's once-in-lifetime run in the mid-90s has definitely spoiled fans, no doubt about that.
     
  11. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    Sure, it's extremely hard to win a championship. That's why they're so precious. I'm happy, even if made a bit crazed by them, to be a Rockets fan... win or lose. I prefer it when they win and I REALLY like it when they make the playoffs. The 3 seasons that I've enjoyed the most were the 2 championships and the '86 season. We didn't win the championship then, but it was a hell of a lot of fun.

    I really was bugged more by montelwilliams saying, "Every season will be a disappointment until then." Meaning every season without a championship, I suppose. I disagree. And I think he comes across as a bit gleeful in that post at any lack of success we might endure, but maybe I'm off base.
     
  12. heypartner

    heypartner Member

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    Easy, you've only been here for a year, right? My feelings about Francis haven't really changed. He's a keeper for sure. Last year I was prepared to offer Francis for Yao Ming. But now we have Yao Ming, and the risk of trading Francis for another franchise player or franchise-potential draft pick is lessoned with Yao on the team. Still I'd only make one trade with him (I'd ask for a NJ future #1, too), and possibly trade him for Darko and another player.

    First, Kidd might want to do a SnT for the money, since he is a 7yr contract vs 6yr for free agents worth like $15m more. It also allows him to not totally screw NJ. The prospects of a SnT, even with SA, are certainly formidable and in Kidds/NJs favor on all counts.

    As for Yao versus Duncan: with Yao, it is a more intriguing challenge where he'll be seen as completely turning around a struggling team, and might make him feel like the success will be seen as his (like Magic/Jabbar) as much if not more than Yao. At SA, the team and success is always Duncan's...would Kidd ever be a MVP candidate again? I don't know what that means, but I like challenges for sure, and Houston would definitely be a bigger challenge, with a brighter spotlight...and if they succeed, the Kidd/Yao tandem will become legendary.

    hehe...this is why I get woozy!! and start drooling.

    Plus, who knows? SA might not offer a max 7yr to a 30 yr old player. It could become a contract length issue.
     
  13. New Jack

    New Jack Member

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    What's your opinion of Milicic. I've never seen him play before, but I've read a lot of comparisons to Garnett. Is he that close to a sure thing that you'd consider giving up Francis for him?
     
  14. MManal

    MManal Member

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    GATER,

    You are forgetting Malik Rose in your potential lineup. A frontcourt trio of Duncan/Rose/Willis at the 4 and 5 positions is plenty when you have a backcourt trio of Kidd/Parker/Ginobilli. The Spurs also have a very solid Bruce Bowen locked down as you pointed out. Thats a very solid 7 man rotation, they would have a little left over to add one more role player if they wanted, plus they would add a 1st rounder in the 25-29 range for depth purposes who wouldnt be much of a cap hit (roughly a 1 mil cap hit next yr for that pick).
     
  15. nyrocket

    nyrocket Member

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    Acquiring a PG with the basketball intelligence of Kidd would yield immediate results, I think most of us agree on that point.

    But am I the only one around here who would trade any Rocket not named Yao for straight up Tony Parker? Hell, I might even trade any two Rockets (excepting a Francis-Mobley tandem) for Parker.

    A Kidd-Duncan team would be a nightmare, but I fear that a Parker-Duncan team will be equally disastrous for everyone else in the division for the next five or six years.
     
  16. TheFreak

    TheFreak Member

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    Yeah, I definitely don't agree with that either.
     
  17. Easy

    Easy Boban Only Fan
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    Parker is still not fully proven, especially on the defensive end. His on-court IQ is no where near Kidd's. Whether he will eventually develop it remains to be seen.

    Yes, a Parker-Duncan team is already good enough to be a contender. The Spurs as they are now can contend for the title every year for many years (barring major injuries). With Kidd. . . man. . . no Kidding. . .
     

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