1A: Do you consider yourself a "good" muslim/catholic/buddist/hindu/etc..? I consider myself to be a good Christian, not a great one, but a good one. Also, I do not qualify myself as a "good" Catholic, Baptist, Methodist, etc, because those are religions and churches and are man-made and are therefore fallable. 1B: do you consider yourself a good person? A good one? Yeah. 2: how did you choose your religion(or did you inherit it without much individual thought or search) What I believe is not really a "religion" it is a set of beliefs that are generated from the Bible (See answer 1A). I grew up in a family where my father was a big-time hippie. He did drugs, and sold drugs. He then decided that he needed something else in his life. He research just about every "religion" out there and decided Christianity was for him (Assembly of God was the church he joined, Pentacostalism was the views he held most closely with.). 3: if you are not particularly religious like me, do you think your personal code (rules) is a result of religion permeating our culture as humans? N/A 3B: thou shalt not kill makes sense, but is that thousands of years of religious influence in our culture, or is it just common sense? People do kill, so it must not be "common sense". People kill for revenge, anger, jealousy, greed, etc. Telling someone you'll go to prison for killing someone (if you're caught) and telling them they'll spend eternity in Hell are two very different deterances. Even a death sentence may be a relief for some. 4: do you religious people think that your religion is the only way to make a person good, or do you respect say Islam’s pillars? Are they reasonably good rules to live by (same team, or different)? A "good person" and a person who's going to Heaven are two very different things. A person can be of any religion or no religion and be a good person, no doubt. 5: do you believe that your religion is intolerant? Weather or not you are open-minded, is the institution open? Intolerant how? My "beliefs" are not intolerant. My belief is that we all sin, and we'll all go to Hell unless we have a relationship with Christ. I believe that it is not 'sin' that sends a man to Hell, but a lack of that relationship with God. That beliefs is how I was able to justify the acceptance within myself of homosexuality. I'll explain. I believe that the people who call themselves Christian, especially those in power positions in churches, are way too hard on gays. Yes, in the Bible homosexuality is a sin. I fully believe that. But, so is lying. I lie sometimes. So, I am a sinner. No different than a person who is a homosexual. If churches want to point out the evils of homosexuality and protest against it, they need to do the same for all sins. But, they won't. So, I say leave them alone. I do believe that homosexuals can be Christians. I'm not 100% sold on gays being ministers, and I am totally against the church sanctioning gay marriages (I'm all for the government allowing them though). But, gays can be saved just as easily as I and any other person. P.S. - I was just using homosexuality as an example. Because there are WAY too many "Christians" who want to single them out for persecution. #6: Whatever your belief is, what would make you change it? Nothing. Although, I have changed my opinion on specific topics within my belief (see answer to #5). When I was younger, I thought "gay bashing" was okay. That was until I found out I had a gay uncle, aunt, and two cousins. I then had to figure out why, if I didn't want people beating up my relatives, how I could rationalize that. I asked God about it, and He obviously showed me how I could love my gay relatives and not be forced to condemn them. #7. What do you think the purpose of religion is? Well, most "religions" are there to lead people away from the one true God. Other than that they also supply much needed moral structure for human society. It's hard to seem like a nice guy when asked questions like this. I have no problem with people thinking or believing whatever they want. But, I have my own beliefs I must remain loyal to. #8 Is a religion that does NOT allow dancing tolerable? (sure ANY religion will let anyone join.) what about a religion which makes Women cover their hair and entire face/body in some sects Tolerable. Many people are intolerable. Religion is man-made and therefore it is also many times intolerable. Tolerance is one of my biggest kicks. I don't even think "tolerance" is the most appropriate word for what I try to do. I think "respect" would be a better fit. I try to respect everyone's beliefs (bigotry is not a belief I try to respect). I may question them, but if you have a belief, you should be able to defend it when questioned. I have a lot of questions. How am I supposed to get answers without asking them? Sure, I may ask the wrong person sometimes and be labelled "intolerant". But, that is the furthest thing from the truth. #9A: If god showed himself to your people as Jesus, and he died for your sins. Than told you to be nice and follow him, than why did He speak through Muhammad?? Why is he speaking through the Daly llama all the time I don't understand this question. I obviously don't think God spoke through them. #9B: This works in reverse too. I am not Just after the Christians here. If god was really running the show don’t you think there would be only one religion? How would faith have any part in religion then? #10 Are religions just essentially translators for god so he can communicate to you? Not the way I see it. #11 Do the rules of a religion that were written down 1400, 2000, or whatever number of years ago still apply to a modern society? It depends. I would say, yes most do. [This message has been edited by DREAMer (edited April 05, 2001).]
Achabe, The J you see everywhere are infact smileys, but when I cut/pasted it from word they somehow became Js. Valdez. I hope you see that my post to Mobes had a J in it, the J was a smiley, I wasnt trying to come down on him. I wanted a more understandable answer. you can interpret scripture in any way you want. you interpreted his quote, however that is how YOU interpreted it. I was hoping to get his views, and not in any context other than how he feels. also in your interpretation of his quote you expressed that "people know inately" from right and wrong. well than isnt it Hypocritical for the bible to tell you right from wrong if people already know inately?? it just seems a strange place to read that. ------------------ Hanta-Force Paintball www.hanta-force.com
I personally think lack of knowledge contributes more than anything to the west's misunderstandings of Islam. You cannot deem something intolerant unless you are educated about the culture and most especially, the origin. 1. Talk to Muslim women who cover in the United States. I guarantee you 9 out of 10 do it by their own choice. This is difficult to understand for a society in which the woman is viewed as a sex symbol by many men. 2. Polygamy was allowed as an act of kindness towards women and orphans yet people want to turn things around and give false stereotypes. This is another one of those issues where you can't make judgements without understanding the history. Many battles were fought during the time of Muhammad, and thus many men were killed. So what happens to the women and orphans? Do they starve? Men were encouraged to marry during these times and this was considered an act of charity, yet now the west has given this negative associations.
That's basically accurate. Good job! To be fair, I should point out that some divisions of Buddhism are as ornate and dogmatic as any other religion. There are devils and hell that are similar in some ways to traditional Christianity. Hell, in this case, is punishment for a specific period of time and graded dependant upon your karma. So, you don't stay there forever. There are even dieties to which you direct prayers much the way Catholics pray to Mary. The Tibeten Buddhist beliefs are particularly dogmatic in this sense. On the other hand, Zen Buddhism is very stark and doesn't have nearly the elaborate nature of the Tibeten version. However, it is much more strict when it comes to rules and practices of meditation and living in everyday life. I point this out because I realize that some of the things I say about my personal beliefs come off to sound rather elitist at times and I don't mean for them to. I don't want to sound like I have all the answers because, in reality, I have VERY VERY few if any at all. Like, I know that two plus two equals 4, but that's about it! Personally, I'm fascinated by some of the answers in this thread. This is a good read. DREAMer: Great comments on gays and the church. I have great respect for your choice there - not just because I happen to agree, but because the fact that you made a choice that isn't all that popular and did it honestly and without compromising your own personal beliefs. You also grew out of beliefs you felt to be damaging to yourself and others and that is not easy to do. I really respect that. ------------------ And then, depression set in...
what exactly would it take for you to change your religion? muslim position on conversion is simple, *anyone* can convert at anytime, and converts are MOST welcome. all it takes is a simple declaration. no ceremonies, no rituals, nothing fancy. didnt wanna quote everthing juan said, but i do agree with a lot of what he said. this is also one of the points i was trying to make earlier, once youve established your belief in God, and are sure of what he has commanded... you BETTER be trying your hardest to carry them out regardless of how good or bad you think they are. here's my question... number 9 or 10 or whatever it is. actually its really a more specific version of an already asked question: 9/10 A: if you are atheist/agnostic, what would it take for you to believe in God B: if you are christian or jewish, what would it take you to accept a different religion.. say islam ------------------ president of the sleepy floyd to hall of fame club. http://www.it-is-truth.org [This message has been edited by jamma34 (edited April 05, 2001).]
Cabbage. I hope you dont mind if I take you to task on this. As I stated inthe origional post that I have had extensive contact as well as conversation with Muslims. I will explain further this contact. Abdul, Afagni Muslim, lived with him for a year and a half. we would have religous conversations ever thu-fri night when I would go out to sin. I asked him about everything islam offers and asks. he told me. i know how he sees women in america, as well as women back home. interesting stuff. Atif, Paki Muslim, not as out spoken as abdul, but he would often join in religous talks. he admited to missing one of his prayrs every once in a while. like once or twicw a week. abdul gave him a hard time, but it was all in joking. sometimes you are busy, and Allah knows that. Atif tought be in Allahs forgiving ways as well gave his viewpoint on much od the same things. although he thought women were more interesting covered, the scantily clad girls on campus did distract him. he admited his human nature. he admited his lust. he just thought it was of low nature for the woman to dress the way they do here(he had a love hate thing about stretch pants) Sophia, Paki muslim, this girl I met when she was a freshman, and she was thinking of droppin out early on. I got her through her immediate homesickness, and we became good friends. she was much more modern in her views than abdul and atif. I got her involved in student govt. I would be romanticly involved with this woman if I were still at school. she kicks ass, even though she is not allowed to have sex. I visited her the night before I posted this thread. we had another of our religous conversations. it was that conversation as much as the thread Ali satrted that prompted this one. As a Muslim woman she hates how woman are treated in islamic societies. just last week she helped her mom witha dinner party. all the atendes were muslim. some covered, some not, but all were more traditional than Sophias family. The med and women were sepaeated, because of traditions. I only heard of the womans conversation, because it really bothered sophia. she was asked why she was in college. she was asked about her boyfriend(because he is her first Paki boy friend, which makes him husband material) everything said to her after she answered a question was stuff like. "if you husband lets you..." about school, work, staying uncovered. all kinds of traditional notions that are not aplicable to a modern woman. there are many other muslims that have helped to educate me, but I want to touch on somethign i gathered from Abdul. in his description of why woman are covered. he said so other men dont admire you woman in a sexual way(very paraphraised) he said that if a man sees another man lookmat his woman in that way(even if covered) he can kill the other man or or his wofe(cant remember) becauser they must be having an affair) but I took this to mean that they would likely just fight the man. is this not just insecurity?? are muslim men afrais they are gonna lose their woman to another man. it is a consperacy to keep her beuty to themselves.I dunno, but it is a bit weird. Also, As someone said earlier muslims choose their mate based on personality, not outer drapings. that is BS, because if a muslim man is intrested ina girl he through a middleman asks for a viewing. than after setting up a private viewing of the girl, he can decide if he wants to persue her. all this now said, I concider myself Agnostic, however i think of all the major religions Islam is the most beleivable. I think Christianity is the least. I will never follow Islam because I LOVE SEX and PORK prodicts too much(mind you not at the same time . i am also a fan of alcohol, not a big one, but i would hate to NEVER drink again PEACE ------------------ Hanta-Force Paintball www.hanta-force.com
Things aren't exactly hunky dorey for Muslim women in Northern African though. From genital mutilation, to women's rights, etc. women aren't exactly treated with the utmost respect. ------------------ \../
quick note about these women questions before i head home from work: about killing women if other guys look at them... thats utter BS (from a religious standpoint). culturally, in that country, they might do stuff like that, and its wrong, but its not justified religiously. the only way a woman can be killed is if she commits adultery while she's married, and there's 4 witnesses to prove it. that is the only way. its extremely stringent. its also worth mentioning, that slandering a woman, calling her a slut or something like that is a HUUUGE sin. just like there's muslims who go out and do random bombings for no reason. not islamically based. they use islam as an excuse but its not representative of it. ------------------ president of the sleepy floyd to hall of fame club. http://www.it-is-truth.org
no offense jamma, but thanks for clarifying the issue. If a woman is raped, does Islam call for there to be a male witness, or is that a cultural thing as well? ------------------ \../
My question was more about spiritual mechanics. For example, in the Christian world, you have some who say that salvation comes from one's acceptance of Christ's payment of your sin -- and they stress the volition of the acceptance. They say if you choose to believe you will be saved. Another, more conservative camp says that those who will be Christian and who will be saved are chosen by God (the doctrine of Election). So, if you're not a Christian (at your death), it's because God has not chosen you to be one. From what I've read of the Bible (which is everything) I would have to ascribe to the latter if I were a Christian. So I was asking what does Islam think about how people become Muslims. Does Allah choose you? Do you choose Allah? Is it even an issue? What do you have to affirm: that Allah is the one and only God? I'd like to answer your question about what it would take to believe in God. But, I really can't find the answer to it. Maybe I've got Election on the brain, but I kind of feel helpless in sorting this one out. ------------------ RealGM Gafford Art Artisan Cakes
So, a human being's life is worth less than a single act of sex? I'm really starting to wince at the contempt that most religions feel for the body. Besides, even without being a huge feminist, I think it's pretty obvious that these sexual codes are all a way of controlling women. The "people of the book" all share in common Eve... where the objectification began. I think our society should look back to Lilith, and remodel our vision of the religious woman. ------------------ I would believe only in a God who could dance. - Friedrich Nietzsche [This message has been edited by haven (edited April 05, 2001).]
thanks for clearing that up. I knew there was killig involved somewhere. on that point. the woman is killed for the Adultry, but the man is not punnished?? or is he killed too? please explain, and if he is not killed, please answer why. I knew about the slander thing. in fact, "your mama" jokes would lead to a fight every time in most Islamic countries. also how come polygamy is still practiced in islam when there are much more equal numbers of male/female?? and why dont some Christians get involved so I can put them on the spot I feel bad questioning islam, and not the Christians. ------------------ Hanta-Force Paintball www.hanta-force.com
http://asalizaki.freeservers.com/torahcodes.htm "it's absolutely impossible within the laws of physics and mathematics as we know it today to know the future in detail as is demonstrated in these [Bible] codes. Consequently, we come to the scientific conclusion that the author of these codes is not bound by the laws of physics and mathematics as we understand it." What do you think about that? Run a search on the Torah codes, its interesting and quite eerie. ------------------
It's BS. Like I've always said, there is alot of misinformation being passed around, especially by Muslims themselves. IMHO, there is nothing, and I mean nothing worse than misrepresentation. I can tell you that the majority of Muslims nowadays are ignorant regarding their own religion. BS again. For the purpose of marriage, viewing is allowed. Muslims are humans too and have physical desire like anyone else. I'm really glad you brought that up Achebe. I am hear to represent the religion, not the people of the religion. FACT: Many Muslim women indeed are victims of opression. FACT: Their opessors are wrong in taking the name of Islam in their acts and it is strictly culture. I know for a fact that women in Southeast Asia are treated like crap. It's a cultural issue, not religious, even though those idiots justify their acts in the name of God. Contrary to popular belief, Muhammad was a defender of women. Women were given high status and were given the right to own property centuries before the rest of the world. Misrepresentation is a dangerous thing. Learn about the religion but don't draw conclusions from the people because many of them are wrong. You affirm that God is one and Muhammad is his final messenger and you have become a Muslim. Nothing more. The punishment for adultery is for both the man and woman to be stoned to death. If I'm not mistaken however, 4 witnesses must actually be present during the time of the violation! Obviously, there are rarely witnesses so most escape punishment in this life. I might be wrong on that though.
I'm really glad you brought that up Achebe. I am hear to represent the religion, not the people of the religion. FACT: Many Muslim women indeed are victims of opression. FACT: Their opessors are wrong in taking the name of Islam in their acts and it is strictly culture. I know for a fact that women in Southeast Asia are treated like crap. It's a cultural issue, not religious, even though those idiots justify their acts in the name of God. Contrary to popular belief, Muhammad was a defender of women. Women were given high status and were given the right to own property centuries before the rest of the world. Misrepresentation is a dangerous thing. Learn about the religion but don't draw conclusions from the people because many of them are wrong. Very good point, your stance is a good one. I must ask, however, how much religion and culture play off of each other? I see both as having influence over each other. There will be no "one practice" of a religion...it is varied and adapted to fit regional worldview...thus, do you only look at idea, or do you look at practical application? Similar to economics, for example. Do you look only to the ideal of capitalism for its merits, or do you discuss the ways in which it has been implemented, never reachind aforementioned ideal? Critiqu communism...wonderful ideal, but in action it seems to easily facilitate totalitarian rule. ------------------ Whitey will pay.
Additionally, if muslims begin to misinterpret the original teachings, so that the new interpretation becomes prevalent, does not this interpretation become Islam? Religion in mass is an organic, breathing entity that is constantly changed. When does supporting only the original intent become futile? Note: I am just using Islam as an example...these are general questions directed to all... ------------------ Whitey will pay.
thanks to thacabbage for takin some of these questions! as for the male's punishment. i am almost positive its the same punishment for both the male and the female. and yeah, 4 at the time of the act. for whoever made the comment that "one life is worth less than a sex act" let me put it this way: that one act destroys MANY lives. firstly, it breaks up the marriage. secondly, if youve got kids, it can ruin every one of their lives too, and so on and so forth. the whole idea is that it is a deterrent to keep people from doing it. as for polygamy, ill try to keep this short, but this is one thing that nonmuslims love to bash muslims with, and its one of my favorite things to prove the practicality of islam. 1. AT THAT TIME, most men did the whole 20 concubine thing, 10, 12 wives. so at that time, 4 was actually a LIMITATIONn on them. 2. someone alrady mentioned this, but men would often die on the battlefield, so this was a way of taking care of the widows. 3. women outnumber men. go check a census or population report. also, muslims believe that women outnumbering men by almost a margin of 50 to 1 (eventualyl) is a sign of the coming of the day of judgement (outnumbering is already starting to happen). 4. so when we establish this, if all the men get married, there's still women leftover. now most religions advocate marriage. what about the women who cant get married? whos gonna help them? women have hormones too, how will they satisfy that if they cant get married? fornicate? that leads to what we've got now... std's, single parenting, etc etc etc. 5. if a religion is from God, its gotta have a solution to every problem. You have a problem, women beginning to outnumber men. whats your solution? we were given one 1400 years ago. also more about the science thing, i hear from SOOOOO many people, i cant reconcile science and religion, its too confusing. this leads to either, a) a rejection of religion in favor of what we can grasp to be true (usually leading to atheism or agnosticism) or b) a rejection of science in favor of religion again, we've got the answer. http://www.it-is-truth.org and especially if you are christian, or want a thorough examination of science in light of the scriptures (the bible and the quran) read this one, http://www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/Books/MB_BQS/default.htm ----by the way this second one is written by a christian guy (i heard he became muslim but i am not sure if thats just a rumor) but anyway its REALLY REALLY good. ------------------ president of the sleepy floyd to hall of fame club. http://www.it-is-truth.org
no. we've got a huge problem with modernism in islam. thats one of the big problems i see with christianity, people try to modernize the religion. ie... homosexuality is a sin... but now some churches allow it. (the point i am making is that they change the rules they used to abide by) in islam, its all set, its from God, and is therefore perfect, we dont need to change anything. its all there. now "new" spins on anything. ------------------ president of the sleepy floyd to hall of fame club. http://www.it-is-truth.org
Actually, if you're familiar with Christian concept Mobes is referring to here, it does answer the question. The passage says that man knows right from wrong, a priori. So, I think you can infer from that that his position is religion doesn't have to inform anyone of what is sin and what is not; they know innately. And I can only assume that the reason he's quoting it is because his FEELings are in agreement with the Scripture. Does it seem so strange to you that an adherant would actally embrace the truths his religion teaches? Mobes, thanks; good reading. Now on to the new questions: 1B: Good person? No. I'm a nice guy and all, but I'm not good. 6: What would make me change my religion? I've been working on it for many years now and have not come across anything that would do it. In fact, many of the things you'd think would help I've decided actually wouldn't. It's my understanding though that: if Judaism is True, I'm already out of the running; if Christianity is True, my allegiance and my salvation are not up to me (Doctrine of Election). I don't know what the Muslim position on the nature of conversion is. Jamma? If Jeff is right, it doesn't matter if I change my mind or not. 7. The purpose of Religion. It's my own question, so I guess I should answer it. It seems to me any function that religion can have that is egocentric is a waste of time. Am I going to fool myself into being a better person with spiritual feeling? Why would I want to be a better person anyway? I think Religion is about believing what is True. Currently, I think there is no God; thus Atheism is my religion. But, if I discovered that there was a God and he wanted me to kill octopuses to gain eternal salvation, then you can bet I'd be doing it -- not because it's moral but because it is commanded. 8. Not allowing dancing, etc. intolerant? Intolerant is a tricky word to use. Certainly such things are considered intolerant because they don't tolerate things that are generally practiced. People are not often called intolerant because they say murder is wrong. I think the better question is is this intolerance wrong. And, in general, I'd say no. 9A. God speaking through different religions: I don't know how much sense this question makes. In my opinion, if one religion is right, the others are wrong (and, you can say that Buddhists (or whoever) think the Christians are just as right as everyone else, but it's a logical fallacy. Christianity says all other religions are wrong. Another religion cannot embrace Christianity and just say that one part where Jesus says all who come to the Father must pass through Him isn't right. Taking out that piece of doctrine sterilizes the entire religion). If Jesus is the Messiah, then God did not speak to Mohammed. If Mohammed is a prophet of God, so is Jesus. 9B Why does God allow more than one religion? I think the answer is sitting next to the one to the questions why is there war? and why is there pestilence? and why is there death? and why is there sin? The Atheist answer is: Lump it. 10. Religion is a communicator? Maybe it's just a grammar issue, but I'd say religion is more about the structure of worship and worshippers. 11. If you had rules directly from God, would you really say, yeah but that was a while ago? If you boss tells you he wants you at work at 9 every morning do you, 30 years later, say I'm sure he's not still serious about that? The truth is people do say that all the time. I'd say that has nothing to do with the potency of the order and everything to do with the fact that people won't do what they're supposed to do if they see a payoff in breaking the rules. When you have a whole society drinking, for example, and telling you what great fun it is and how you're weird not to do it too, your faith in Allah needs to be strong to resist it anyway. Things like Divine Displeasure can often seem very remote. I know in Christian churches now, people have a lot of trouble with passages in the Bible that say women should not speak in church. With these commands, you can go 3 routes: (1) Follow them to the letter, don't allow your women to speak in church and be labeled a cult and ostracized from society; (2) ignore the passage, explain it away by saying Paul was just a chauvinist reflecting the attitudes of his day; or (3) say the Bible is completely True, but Paul is not saying women are not allowed to speak at all -- he's just talking about a certain portion of the worship service and really it's just a reaffirmation of the ban on women preaching. The church I attend (which is considered very conservative) takes #3 and avoids being called a cult. But to what extent are they sincerely interpretig the Bible and to what extent are they bending their doctrine in servitude to the Women's Lib movement? As you may be able to tell, if I believed in God, I'd rather be called a cultist than stray from my belief. ------------------ RealGM Gafford Art Artisan Cakes
Juan V, I'm not sure what you mean here. If you're talking about predestination, that is not a "Christian" belief. Where's the quote located? I'd like to look at the context. Why would Jesus tell his disciples to go out and spread His Word to the world, if people were predestined? Why He say through Him is the way to the Kingdom of Heaven? Was he just teasing all those who are not predestined? ------------------------ VOR, How is that? I find Islam to be the most similar to Christianity, although there are many differences. I think many people (including yourself) have not had someone explain the basic beliefs of Christianity. Not, the "Fire & Brimstone" stuff you hear in church, that stuff is for people who are already Christians and just need someone to remind them to stay on the straight and narrow. In order to spread the Word of God, you can't present it the same way you present it to people who already believe it. Hmmm, that sentence sounds weird... almost like deceitful, but in reality it's not. I am not the person to express what much of Christianity is.... I try, but I am a novice. My Dad on the other hand is a gifted conversationist, and knowledgeable on many religions (not only Christianity). He's not a perfect man, in fact, he screwed up things real bad at one point in his life, but his knowledge is there, and he's good at sharing it. Though, he's stingy with me, because he wants me to read and study things for myself. ------------------------ haven, Which belief are you referring to? Christianity is ALL about forgiveness. Forgiveness was the biggest difference in the way God dealt with people before Christ and after Christ. The Saviour was a turning point. I believe that all the rules and regulations put in the Old Testament were God's way of showing the Jews that they could not be perfect. His message is that a man cannot be saved through his own actions, it must be through a relationship with God. ----------------------- rim, I know your question was directed at TCab, but let me answer from a Christian perspecitive. I think I cannot stress the importance of what has allowed me to remain a Christian. That is, Christianity is not a religion. It is a belief (and obviously, I feel it's the only true one). Religions are man-made. So, when the "church" any church makes up some restriction or rule, I question it, unless it is directly from the New Testament. Even then, I must evaluate whether it is being used in its most useful way. It's hard to be a Christian with the Jerry Fallwells, the Jimmy Swaggarts, the Crusades, the role played in Latin American oppression, et al. But, all those acts were performed by men. Man is inherently evil. That is why we cannot get into Heaven without accepting Jesus. Catholicism, Baptists, Methodists, Lutherans... they're not bad people, but neither are Muslims, Aethiests, Agnostics. And, no, being inherently evil does not always equate into being a bad person. It just means that we are fallable and therefore not fit for the Kingdom of God. A Catholic can be denied entry into Heaven just as easy as an Aethiest, if that relationship and trust in God is not there. I'm sorry I can't really define "relationship" better, because I'm not 100% sure exactly what it is. I think if I did, then everyone would know, and everyone would be a Christian. ---------------------- [This message has been edited by DREAMer (edited April 06, 2001).]
