is it possible that your nanny could have exaggerated the tone and demeanor of one of these fundamentalist groups like Church of God/Church of Christ, you know the tv types. They're so afraid and, have mercy, oh lord, praise be, that maybe they conveyed that fear to her more so than they actually specified it?
Unfortunately, I dont think so Achebe. She has been told that this is how it is. Now, whether she has been told that by her Pastor or perhaps a high-ranking member of her congregation is unknown to me. I think I am going to have to go the route of pointing out the aforementioned Biblical passages and ask her to tell me how she perceives them. If that doesn't change her perception (which I am assuming to be the case), I'm going to have to pay the Pastor a visit...and then I'll need a whole other boatload of advice on how to approach it.
She has been told by her Priest/Pastor (I'm not exactly sure what the 'leader' of her church is referred to as) that if she misses too many services, she will go to hell and God will never forgive her. Christ forgives, all anybody needs to do is read the Bible to find that out: Matthew 6:14 Mark 11:25, 26 The Story of David I also don't believe that it is a "sin" to skip a few services here and there. The point of the services are to help your life and teach you more about God, so it should be a voluntary act if one wants to go or not. I'm starting to really worry about her because I am starting to think this religion she is practicing is more of a cult than a religion. I mean, who tells their congregation that all other religions are bad? I think it's pretty obvious that this is not right to do...but here are some scriptures for ya: John 6:47 John 3:16 (and read this unlike most read it today: by memory...read it word for word. WHOSOEVER BELIEVETH IN HIM SHOULD NOT PERISH, BUT HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE!!!) It's not about choosing the "right" religion and you're home free. It's about having a relationship with God and living for Him. I honestly believe she should get out of that church. You should probably bring her to yours and introduce her to some people so that she doesn't feel awkward, make her feel at home in your church and if she wants to change to another - you should probably attend with her once or twice to let her know that you're there for her, and you want the best for her. She religiously (no pun intended) donates a small portion of her paycheck each week (maybe 25 bucks or so) to the church and feels that if she stops, God will look badly upon her and she will go to hell. I personally tithe 10%. It was practiced in the Bible and I think that it shows one is willing to actually lose something for God's better use of the money. I know that if i stop, it's not going to be the thing that puts me to hell or not...but i think it's a good practice to keep. I hope everthing works out for her. She really needs to get out of that situation.
I happen to preach for a church of Christ. I may post some things latter in this thread having to do with churches of Christ. I don't speak for the churches of Christ or anything like that (churches of Christ are independant and autonomous; no governing board or creed), but there are some common misrepresentations that I come across over and over again in my work. It seems to me that I see some of them here, although I could be wrong about that. I would certainly be glad to help with the current situation if I can. From what has been said, it seems to me that this could go one of three ways. 1. Some of what she says could come from not having a mature faith. That's not intended to be an insult to her. But some of what she seems to be telling you is characteristic of someone who is trying to come to terms with what the Scriptures say. Very often, however, their beliefs at that point are more of a caricature of what the Scriptures say. Some people grow out of it; others don't. 2. Some of what she said could come from honest convictions obtained by reading the Scriptures for herself. For example, I've never seen the "join the church of your choice" concept in the Bible. She may not be getting some of what she's telling you from her preacher at all. Even a casual reading of the New Testament reveals that Christianity is not an "everyone is acceptable" religion. That's stems more from a "politically correct" culture than the Bible. I'll describe that further if you'd like; I realize it sounds kind of harsh on the face of it. 3. Some of what she said does sound like it could be cult-like. I do believe the International Church of Christ fits that category. It started in Boston when a church there started trying exercise a great deal of control over their members and other churches. I said earlier that churches of Christ are independant and autonomous (i.e., no organization or other church gets to dictate how a local church believes, worships, or works). I've heard (I believe on 20/20 or something like that) that the Boston church would go so far as to ask their members to put give using their credit card if they didn't have the cash. That's obviously absurd, but that's how much control they have over their members. I'm assuming you live up in NJ. Churches under the control of the Boston church are most prevalent in the Northeast, so this isn't unlikely. However, if the building really says, "Church of Jesus Christ" rather than "Church of Christ," it's probably not the International Church of Christ at all or even a "Church of Christ" as most people think of it. It could just be some completely independant group. One more thing: I realize that you're not a Christian, but I would evaluate her new beliefs based on what the Bible says. If she says something to you that seems strange, ask her why she believes it. She should be able to show you a passage of Scripture for it. Admittedly, it's still possible that she could be taking it out of context or something like that, but it's at least a starting place. She shouldn't be offended by you asking her to show you were she gets her beliefs. I love it when people ask me, and chances are that she will as well. If you have any questions, you can email me. For that matter, so can anyone else if they're of the mind to do so. I'll also check the thread later to see if anything is here. In the meantime, as a cartoon I once read said, "Sunday's coming, and you ain't got no sermon." Considering I have to preach two every Sunday, I better get some work done today. jefftrahan@hotmail.com
I thought he was a Christian. Are Jews Christians? or just really close? Because I'm a Seventh Day Adventist and I know that we have a lot of things very close to Jewish beliefs, and it's a Christian denomination. EDIT...BTW. don't mean for the above to take away from the rest, it was a very insightful post. Thanks.
My college, freshman year roommate was recruited into the Chicago Church of Christ. I went to several of their functions but did not join. They also believed that anyone that did not belong to their church would go to hell and I remember that they got my roommate thinking that his own parents would go to hell. Also, they would not be friends with anyone outside the church. I remember at one of the sermons that the minister responded to the brainwashing accusation by saying that before he joined, his brain needed washing. I think that if your nanny belongs to the same/similar organization, then what will happen is that she will try to get you and your family to join the church. If you do not, then she will probably end up leaving your employment. I also think that you will have a difficult time trying to convince her leave the church and if she likes the church then maybe you shouldn't try to convince her to leave. My roommate recruited several guys from my floor freshman year and to the best of my knowledge, they all ended up graduating. Good luck!
TraJ.. Your response was very educating for me and I am certainly going to take your advice and ask her why she believes certain things...as well as ask her if her church is called "Church of Jesus Christ" (im fairly sure it is but i will double check) or something else. Thank you very much for the insight and I'll let you know how it works out.
Jews are not Christians, nor are they close. Christians believe that Jesus Christ is God's son. Jews do not believe that.
Oh...okay, never knew that. I just know that I don't eat pork for religious reasons, and other Christians ask me if i'm Jewish. I worship on Saturday and view the Sabbath as being sundown Friday night to sundown Saturday night and people ask me if i'm Jewish when they hear that. Thanks for clearin that up.
Pork isn't kosher....some jews are kosher, especially orthodox jews..thus, they don't eat pork..or shellfish and some other things for that matter.
I agree with Max, and the others who are echoing these sentiments. If you don’t have a bible handy, try http://bible.gospelcom.net/ I also recommend Romans for good information on justification by faith not works. Just be sure to read the passages in their broader context, though, because Paul uses a presentation that could throw you if you take passages out of context. The end of Romans 1, for example, lists many sins and at first blush looks quite legalistic. Romans 2, however, begins: 1You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. Which, of course, gives strong warning against self-righteous judgement. This doesn’t mean that sin isn’t sin, just that we are all sinners and that we have no right to judge (in the biblical sense) each other.
I was only able to skim some of the responses (time pressure) so forgive me if I'm redundant. If I offend anyone with my characterization of religions, btw, sorry; but, for NJR's sake, I'm not pulling any punches. I'm assuming she goes to the Church of Jesus Christ and Latter Day Saints, that is the Mormons. If so, quoting the Bible to her won't much help because they have their own version. They do not accept the standard Bible as true (I believe they call it mistranslated). Mormonism is, as I understand it, a works-based religion and they've purged everything referring to salvation through grace. So, I think if she is a Mormon, quoting Scripture to her may be a nonstarter. Also, in my experience with Mormons, the rank-and-file seem to steer clear of discussing doctrine. I hear a lot of "well, I'd have to ask my pastor," and "you should come to my church and talk to my pastor" (uhh, no thanks). Her religion, whether it be Mormonism or not, is not Christianity. They probably claim to be Christians, but they just are not. Even Catholics, who are themselves heavy on works, believe in salvation through grace (if they're listening to the Pope, that is). So, I wouldn't go in assuming you're dealing with a Christian that can be argued with on Christian grounds. She worships a different God. I don't think she is misunderstanding or exxagerating anything she's told you. There are cults that are like this. The "other religions are bad 'crock'", btw, may be the only legit thing she believes. It is not uncommon to claim the singularity of your religion. Christians believe folks of other religions will go to Hell. Same with Muslims. Most Jews nowadays (in my experience) deny the existence of Hell. Catholics are leary of letting anyone into Heaven outside the Catholic Church (not sure what the official position is). Given that her religion is not Christian (in my understanding), why would they let Christians and other outsiders into their Heaven? Given the extreme ignorance you've confessed, I don't know if I'd advise you do anything at all. Her faith in this religion is obviously deeply ingrained. And, you are completely uneducated about it. I know you are your family care for her and are looking out for her. But, I would bet you have a better chance of driving a wedge between her and your family than you do of actually getting her to reconsider her religion. For now, is it really such an affront to let her worship in her church, regardless of how cultish it may be? In the meantime, you may want to educate yourself on what she believes: attend services, read whatever Bible they approve, join a bible-study. I'm sure they'd allow you if you expressed a sincere curiosity. (Understand I suggest this only with the stern warning to not end up joining a cult and to not think the things you learned apply to Christians.)
I did some searching and it seems possible that this is a spinoff of the Mormons. It's not the mormon church headquartered in Utah, however. At least I don't think it is, although it's possible. There is a group that has it's headquarters in Pennsylvania. I'm from Texas, but I believe Penn. is close to NJ, right? (j/k) Perhaps this is the group she belongs to: http://www.the-church.org/
I have a couple of questions for you NJRocket. In the past couple of weeks We have been to funeral services of opposite extremes. A very close friend of our family passed away and the funeral services were not held for 12 days. On the other side of the spectrum, my wife's grandmother, who was Jewish, passed away Tuesday and the services were held yesterday. Is there some scripture basis for having services so quickly? The original plan was to hold services on Wednesday but the Rabbi was unable to do his work for the body to be prepared in time for this(I'm not entirely sure the reasoning I just know that he had not done whatever is required by the Jewish faith to have the body ready for the services). Anoither thing that I am curious about. My parents wanted to pay their respects by sending flowers. They asked us to deliver them but we were told that flowers are usually not sent to Jewish services. Is there a scriptural or customary reason for this also? My wife, who was raised in a Jewish home, was not aware of this either.
Usually, Jewish people are buried within a few days. I really don't know any scripted reason why Jewish people do that. Personally, my grandmother passed away on a Thursday night and we had her service on a Sunday. That was because you dont hold a funeral in the Jewish religion on the Sabbath (Fri sundown thru Sat sundown). Flowers aren't customary in the Jewish religion. When a Jewish person dies, you normally send food. (fruit basket, a tray of food/sandwiches, cookies etc). The food is served at the shiva call. The shiva call lasts around 4 or 5 days.
Also Castor...as far as sending something to the Jewish service, that really isn't done either. You normally send the food to the home where they are sitting shiva.
Just an FYI, the vast majority of religions do have a some degree of exclusivity to them. Some even have exclusivity among their various denominations. For example, there are some Christian denominations that really frown on the Catholic practice. Anyway, most Christians and Muslims and a percentage of Hindus and even some Jews from what I understand feel that their religion is the only path to God and that any other practice dooms you to hell or whatever version of this they have. So, when you ask, "who tells their congregation that all other religions are bad?" well, just about all of them when they are Christian or Muslim because that is their belief and a varying degree of others when they are Hindu, Jew or even Buddhist in some instances. For them, their differing scriptures create differing beliefs that are exclusive to their own religion. Sorry to hear about what is going on with your nanny. In my experience with Christianity, the vast majority of legitimate churches are supportive of the varying beliefs and approaches their parishoners have to Christianity. Good churches don't demean or frighten. They comfort and support. Given what you have said, I'd say it is fairly certain what she has joined is a church that doesn't support or comfort and that isn't true spiritual practice.
