I don't know about some of the ocuntries you mentioned. Is it opression if you choose to live in that country and you're free to leave? I really really don't think so. There are no Christian Saudis (for example) so living in Saudi and being Christian, you're basically an expat... Meaning you're there for YOUR benefit, no one forces you to live there and no one forces you to leave. As for my country, it's not like Saudi. We have a few churches, and although it's an Islamic country, the population is so diverse, I don't think the Muslim population is that much bigger than the rest. You can practice Christianity freely here. Not Juddaism though, but it doesn't say it on American passports, so if you're Jewish no one would know unless you told them. I suggest you don't.
I gotta say though... I know 4 atheists... You, outlaw, and 2 friends of mine. All four of you come off a bit hostile (personality). Maybe it's just an anomaly.
Ummm... I think it's because you'll find that Muslims are more passionate about their religion than Christians. I'm not saying that there are no passionate Christians, I'm just saying that of the people who call themselves "Muslim", the majority have a very strong passion for the religion. I really don't know if the same can be said about Christianity, but it's probably not the same proportion, right? It may be just MY observation, but that is what I've observed.
Somehow, you are missing the point that Saudi Arabia is openly hostile to people who practice/ believe in other religions besides Sunni Islam. We have already covered some of this ground before in regards to differences between the U.S. and countries with a strong Muslim identity such as Saudi Arabia. So it isn't opression if they let you know upfront about the opression that they have in store for Chritians, Jews, Hindus etc? We can slice it and dice it different ways, but some countries with an Islamic majority population are hostile to other religions to varying degrees. I will never understand the need to have laws, culture and other things in place to <i>protect</i> Islam in countries such as Saudi Arabia. With so much momentum towards Islam, how a Christian church will upset the state of things is something I can't fathom. You fail to understand how it <b> bothers</b> some Americans for the U.S. to grant a <b>huge</b> degree of religious freedom/choice to people, yet countries such as Saudi Arabia will not return the courtesy/respect/consideration to Christians & others. Your fallback position is that those are the <i>laws</i> in those respective countries and that is how it is. In regards to Pakistan, there have been many incidents of violence against Christians and Churches. Also, what does being Muslim have to do with being qualified to be President of Pakistan. <a HREF="http://www.pakistani.org/pakistan/constitution/part3.ch1.html">PART III: The Federation of Pakistan: Chapter 1. THE PRESIDENT</a> <i>.....A person shall not be qualified for election as President unless he is a Muslim of not less than forty-five years of age and is qualified to be elected as member of the National Assembly........</i> What would you think if the U.S. and/or Western Europe started enacting laws that had a strong bias in favor of Christians and made those who practice other religions second class citizens with less rights than the majority Christians?
If you see something that looks like fire, you jump in it, and you stay in it, I think that's more your fault than the person who created the "fire". It's not opression. It's part of our culture, that's how it's been done, and no other way has shown better results. The "American model" may be fine with you, but I woud rather die that see Saudi Arabia in that state. The concept of total freedom may be totally fine for you, it may suit you very nicely... But it's not the Middle Eastern flavor. It's not the way it's done here, it's not the way we want it to be. You can slice it and dice it however YOU like, but those people living in Saudi are there for money. The money is f-ing good, and everyone knows it. The reason that money is so good is because it's difficult to live in Saudi, so less people are willing to do it. Basic law of demand and supply. It's like joining that company that just fired a girl for eating pork. You join it after KNOWING what happened, and then you decide "Well, I want to eat pork now." You knew what the rules were and no one is stopping you from quitting. As for protecting Islam, it's part of Islam. It's a rule. Rules are made to be followed. I am not going to argue a point when I think it's God's word and you don't. We will never come to an agreement until one converts the other from their religion. If it bothers Americans to grant freedom, take it up with your government. Kick everyone out. Only problem is, who do you kick out? I read somewhere on the board that America wasn't even established by Christianity. The freedom is for Americans, don't make it sound like America granted freedom on its land for the WORLD's benefit. It's not a favor when you are doing it for yourself. As for Pakistan, I don't know how Christians are treated. You could be right, but I don't know. The president thing applies to most countries in the world I believe? In fact, in Iran you have to be a certain sect of a certain sect of Muslim to become "President". The president represents the country. Isn't most of Pakistan's population Muslim?
Forgot to answer this. I would say that if I'm in MY country, I deserve to be treated like I am from this country. If I am anywhere else and am enjoying the benefits of that country, then I will live by the rules they set. A man expects to be treated better at home than anywhere else. Isn't this what everyone goes by? You or your anscestors provided the home, you are paying for it, you are maintaining it, and you are allowing people to live there.... You deserve to be treated like you're the man of the house.
the point was don't judge all atheists because you "know" 4 of us and I won't judge all muslims based on Sept. 11th.
Don't you remember that massacre in the church that happened shortly after Sept 11? I think 15 people were killed. Most countries have an official religious requirement to become head of state? Not any democracies that I can think of.
Difference is, you do jusge all Muslims based on that, btu I don't judge all atheists based on what I've observed, which is why I mentioned that it could be an anomaly.
No, I don't remember, because I never heard about it. Honestly, I don't have the numbers. I'm assuming. However, it really doesn't matter. The dominant religion/race/whatever will always win. Which is why you don't have black or women presidents, and as far as I know, most of your presidents are Christian, right? Does it really matter what Pakistan decides? Who changes the law in Pakistan? Don't the people of Pakistan vote for the people who can change the law? So if they really want to remove that law, it's possible. This concept of seperating the country from religion doesn't fly in Islam. You know why? Because Islam includes laws by which you are supposed to run the land. Law is a subdivision of religion, while for you guys, law and religion are just two different categories altogether.
please point out where I have said so other than this thread. I'm no more anti-Islam than any other American and no I don't blame the religion itself for what happened 3 years ago. The "cue DaDa" line was a joke at his expense. Really though Sane, you claimed to "know" me but you really don't. well I "mentioned it could be an anomaly" too in my example to point out how silly your original assertion was to begin with.
Seriously outlaw, let's not play games. We have had these conversations on more than one occasion and you regularly imply directly or indirectly that Islam or religion is the reason for a whole bunch of ****ed up things. As for the anomaly thing, I really believe it could be an anomaly. From your tone, it didn't seem like you had the same intention, though it could just be a misunderstanding.
No one judges all Muslims based upon one innane act, nor does anyone judge all Christians based upon one act. My sole point has always been that these innane acts are propagated by individuals who have been twisted by religious leaders or zealots, and that the Muslim faith, in particular, has a much higher degree of zealots and thus is more prone to producing more idiotic zeaolots. DD
correct me if I misunderstand this...... but wasnt this country founded by Puritans, who are a offshoot of the Anglican Church of England, who is a offshoot of the Roman Catholic Church? Last time I checked, the Catholic Church and the Anglican Church are Christian denominations yes? so. if these facts are indeed true...then saying this country wasnt founded by Christians if a false statement. please feel free to correct me if I have misunderstood these relationships between the churches.
