Or it could be a case of just confirmation bias. So what if they believe that after you die that's it? As if there SHOULD be something, like an afterlife? Also I know some atheists and they don't feel that just because there's no afterlife that this life doesn't matter. It's quite the opposite. Knowing that this is it makes them value this world even more.
And to what fate does the Jesus you speak of consign the rest who aren't worthy to step through his Gate?
Religion, why do i believe in it, its not so much as a religion, as its my life style like its part of me in everything i do, as to why do i believe in it? because inside of me its truth, from my experiences in life, its impossible to ignore the truth (for me), im in a position where my God's existence is very much so Black and White with no grey area, and thats just my honest opinion. I can testify that God has given me the perfect advice for hard situations in my life but i guess from a non-believers standpoint those are highly skeptical~ so ill try and put myself in the mindset of b4 i was convinced God existed. I guess in the past i also had doubts about God, life after death etc etc, and man, and i used to ask myself the most bizarre questions that just had no answer at all. ie: Everything which exists, must have been created at some point in time, yet this theory collapses on itself because how can something just exist without being created in the first place? then someone/thing had to create the creator, and the cycles continues on forever, and theres no answer, theres just an infinite amount of creator who created a creator, ie. NO ANSWER maybe i was just a weird kid ,but i also thought about how our universe existed, in terms of physical space, was the universe just an infinitely expanding thing which kept growing outwards? is it assumed to be fixed and just infinite in terms of size and dimensions, i guess i did think about alotta strange things as a kid, and having no idea how it all worked bothered me, when i was young too , the thought of Death really scared the crap out of me, like, just not existing anymore, nothing, was a horrible feeling. As i grew older and heard about this thing called Heaven and Hell, i guess it was skeptical, but at the same time, what if Hell really did exist? its described as being placed in a fiery lake for eternity in constant indescribable amounts of pain, so as a young boy, im like, hmmm maybe i should just believe in God a lil bit, u know, just in case so for a long time i just accepted the fact that there was a God because it made life easier to deal with, just accept that God was the answer to all my unsolved issues and also if i believed in him then if there was a hell, i wouldnt have to go there this is like around 10 years old, fast track about 7 years, my experiences with God were close to non existent, i was just living a life of an average non believer, i still held onto my belief that there was probably a greater entity known as God but yeah thats about, other than that i wasnt much different from any other teenager. i guess what really pushed me over to the Lord was that after i started attending church (i was forced to by by mother), i guess it was a slow transformation, but starting off as a disgruntled kid who didnt feel like going to church, as time went on, i slowly changed, alot of the flaws in my personality were changing for the better, ie: horrible temper, EXTREMELY colourful vocabulary in every day speech was toned down alot, and just happier and more peaceful in life in general, it was good, i guess it sorta just happened for me. i always believed in a God since i was kid, but never took him seriously until more recently when i can see Him as a real presence in my life, at times when i have been really hit hard with issues in life, and have no one to turn to, i would read the bible, and somehow it would lead me to the verse which exactly described my situation and revealed to me what i was doing wrong and how i shuold do things correctly, and after applying that to my life, it really worked, i felt that God was really looking out for me all this time and i could really feel his love, i could go on and on about what God has done for me but i guess to some people i already sound like a raving fanatic, but I guess i believe in God because he has really had an impact in my life and changed me as a person for the better and i can never thank Him enough. man, i just realised how long this post got... sorry .. one last thing, for those who are christian and have accepted God into their lives, here's an important message for ya! it really touched me~ <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/uuabITeO4l8&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/uuabITeO4l8&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object> non-believers feel free to watch if u feel like also, God Bless y'all
to answer your question, we're assuming that you hypothetically accept that Jesus is the real deal, if that was the case, then you would believe what the Bible says to take heed to the very specific warnings and instructions placed in there to live our life the right way, Because God loves us ALL and doesnt want to see any of us to fall.... but he cant force us to do the right thing, he gave us the authority to make our own choice in what we wanted to do. So although i understand where your coming from, i guess to answer your question (pardon the bluntness): if we're standing underneath a massive rock, and you've been advised to get out of the way, yet you refuse to listen to that advice, and are crushed when it falls, then thats just the consequence of your own actions/lack of action. I guess the next question would be, but how can we trust that voice (God) which gives advice, hmmm in this world when you have nothing else to rely on, its good to believe that there is hope, i guess thats just how i feel, and even if our physical bodies to die, each of us do have our own spirit, and where our spirit dwells after our physical body has died will depend on whether we have heeded instruction or chosen to ignore it.
no amount of argument will be able to confirm whether an after life really exists or not, i guess the challenge for christians is to really believe that there is, and have faith that what we live on earth is just temporary because we have an eternity in heaven afterwards. If it could be proven that heaven existed, whats the point of that, no faith is required, no1 would choose to be in Hell~ so i guess to some extent its necessary to make it impossible for us to determine whether it really exists or not and have faith that it does. On one side we have people determined God does exist, and on the other side we have people who are determined to prove that God doesn't exist, I guess if both cases were analysed, if the aetheists are right, no one really wins, we just all die and thats that, but what if thats not the case.... then according to scripture which is what God would have given to us to read, you cannot entirely rule out the possibility of a place called Hell existing which doesnt sound like a very nice place to spend eternity... theres no way to prove it, but yea... just my 2c
This is a good thread because the issue is simple- why you believe and others have posted why they don't believe... of course it is basically going to a Christian vs. non-Christian deal... I have had a spiritual experience with God, so it is not just an intellectual assent for me. I believe in a person. I think there are three aspects of a spiritual experience with God: 1. It is God initiated. 2. It is perfectly consistent with the Bible. 3. It changes the heart from selfishness to love. I think most people who don't believe lack #1 and #3 and therefore are skeptical of #2 People can trip over the Bible, trip over hypocrites, but you won't trip if Jesus changes your heart.
Chronox, the video you attached is now famous; one of the classic sermons of our times. I hate most (and I mean most) of the sermons I hear in the media, they are so much "straw," but this one, vintage. Paul Washer is not widely known, but, in my opinion he is one of the prophets of our day. Typically, the less popular the word, the truer it is. I understand that he was not asked to speak again.
Well, I think God can force us to do what is right, if he is indeed all-powerful. But he chooses not to. Fine ... let us accept that. Why, then, would He decide, in his infinite wisdom, that the repercussions of not abiding by His word would be eternal damnation? I'd think a benevolent God, the God of the New Testament, would, at least, be willing to give someone another chance to get His message. For any of this to make sense to me, I'd have to think that there is a higher power, over and above even God, that requires people to have only one shot of understanding his message, and which decides what the rewards and what the punishments would be. But such an entity can not exist, at least not in Christian theology (if I understand it correctly).
The flaw here is that Christianity is nothing more than making a decision now about what will happen to you in the future. The Gospels spend very little time talking about afterlife....eternity...etc. Jesus spent most of his time talking about living RIGHT NOW. Not about buying fire insurance at church by saying the magic words. I believe in eternity...I don't know what it looks like. And it's not my concern in following Jesus. This isn't about adding the asset of eternal life to my portfolio. It's about bringing heaven to earth...partnering with God in the redemption of the world. Serving humanity instead of expecting to be served. Being on God's side instead of worrying about whether he's on yours.
Straight up, MadMax, as someone who has faced a crisis of faith over the last few years, your words and posts on this issue are, without fail, always an inspiration. Thank you, very much.
So do you feel that accepting Jesus as a personal savior is an essential part of the faith, or is practicing good deeds enough?
Tell me what you mean by "accepting Jesus as a personal savior." I have no idea what it really means. I see churches working so hard for people to say the magic words...and then stopping there. Jesus was a rabbi. That was the title his followers used for him often. If you were to follow a rabbi in the first century, it meant you literally tried to imitate him. These people were called disciples. So if you were a plumber...you'd seek to become what the rabbi was were he a plumber. If you were an attorney, you'd seek to become what the rabbi was were he an attorney. (maybe that means not being an attorney!! ) It's not your fault that you understand Christianity in this way. The Church in America has turned Jesus and salvation into a commodity. Say the right words, and you're in. I read the Gospels and I wonder how in the world we ever got there. The Church is more concerned with itself than with the world it was put here to serve!!!!! Christianity is about imitating Jesus. About trying to become the Sermon on the Mount. Read what he did and imagine if other people lived their lives that way. If they treated people with respect irrespective of gender or nationality. If they lamented the world/empire/man's kindgdoms because those things have turned human beings into commodities. When I hear the words that John Lennon wrote in Imagine...that's what I'm reminded of. That you're not getting that message from the Church is my biggest issue....it's the one that moves me most. And I'm not sure what that means for my life yet.
So it's not about "accepting Jesus as God", but rather accepting his way of life. One could, in fact, be an atheist and still live a good "Christian" life. Do you agree?
sorry yeah thats what i meant, of course he has the power to do whatever he wants, be his decided to let us make our own choice in life In my opinion, I believe alot of people (including many christians) have a misconcieved perception of God, He is not some kind of happy clappy, rainbows & flowers God, although most thing you hear about Him are true, that he forgives ALL your sins and He always loves you and always wants the best from His children, but I think his system is fair and that you can't cheat it, He designed it that way because that's how He wanted it, and i think its fair, For those who acknowledge the truth, heaven will be waiting, and yes, for those who have ignored Him their whole life, then they have made their choice very clear. I also believe that in life, that God is continually trying to reach us and that all of us will be given many chances to accept Him. I feel that God gives us plenty of chances in life to get his message, its not asif as soon as someone speaks against Him they're struck down by lightning or something But in our life, I dont think its fair to say that "I never got a chance to know God", unless of course its a special circumstance, ie: aborted children, mentally challenged etc etc. With those special cases i believe I've read that God has ensured that there is a place in heaven for those without the capacity or chance in life to accept Him, i also have faith that He is a fair God. Otherwise, I do believe we all have a chance to accept Him, every day is a chance to accept Him in our lives, like MadMax said, its just a decision we gotta make, no amount of arguments, debates, scientifical facts will ever be able to disprove/prove God due to the nature of a such an entity, It's always gonna be a 'faith-based' decision. Hmmmm, i don't really understand why is there need for a higher power to govern a God who is already almighty, all powerful, perfect~
i'm not a christian because of the things i do. i do the things i do because i'm a christian. the word christian is a great noun, but a poor adjective. i think there are lots of true, good, loving, honest, thoughtful, awesome, amazing, (insert other positive adjective here) things that many different people do from all different walks of life and perspectives. i believe EVERYONE is created in God's image. and i think when those things are done, they are of God and pleasing to Him. i think He loves everyone on this planet, no matter what they think of Him.
