[Religion of Intolerance] Muslim Mass Attacks, Mar 13

Politicians are s**tstains most of the time, but somebody has to propose policy. Why does anybody need organized religion?

The world has gotten more secular and world violence has declined precipitously. The world keeps on getting better the less religious it is.

Christianity might be defanged, but that doesn't mean fangs don't grow back.

Want to trace a common thread from Golden Dawn to Donald Trump? Their massive base of staunch Christian supporters.

When was the last time their Christian backgrounds prevented Rwanda or Bosnia from happening?

These threads are generally even more of a waste of time than the forum as a whole where a whole bunch of people who can't and don't do jack s**t on Islam repeat the mantra of "Islam needs a reform."

I'm telling you guys to be more ambitious than that. You can start by secularizing a Christian right away. Then move your way to organizations that guide Muslims who want to convert out of their countries of origin.

 

not really this verse , its a basic principle . even at war time , its forbidden to kill innocents and non fighter , even harming their properties .

"GOD does not enjoin you from befriending those who do not fight you because of religion, and do not evict you from your homes. You may befriend them and be equitable towards them. GOD loves the equitable.".

-simple as that : defend your self if someone attack you ,but dont be the aggressor .

BTW, under Islamic teaching , I should be nicer to you

 

I see this debate and I see where both sides are coming from, but in this world it is the results and interpretation that matter, and not necessarily what is written in the books. Right now, an interpretation of Islam amongst a sizable minority of Muslims is that it is ok to honor kill females who have somehow dishonored the family. That facts are there for anyone to see and can't really be argued.

Religions are constantly evolving and being re-interpreted. Christians don't follow half the stuff in the Old or New Testaments either and much of Christian understanding of the religion isn't even written down in the Bible(just look for references for Lucifer or Hell in the Bible for example).

If it makes anyone feel better, the WestBoro Baptist Church also claims to be "Christian" and share many of the same intolerant and scary tendencies with their "interpretation" of Christianity. The only difference is that there are only of few hundred of them. Imagine if we had millions of Christians with WestBoro-like tendencies. Fundamentalist Christians in this country are already vilified for anti-women and outdated sexual views, it cannot be wrong to point out out similar flaws in other major world religions such as Islam.

 

You don't have to imagine.

Donald Trump's imminent nomination for the Republican candidacy is happening right now.

 

It's logic that no one is using. I don't know where you come to the conclusion that somehow anyone is saying it's ok. You come to some very strange conclusions.

Except nowhere in the Quran does it talk about honor killings.

Honor killings happen in many parts of the world and have been around before islam. They exist in aboriginal cultures and backwards cultures. I'm sorry you hate Islam and have to label people who disagree with you as "apologists". The fact that you are defending honey bear should say a lot.

I agree that honor killings are a problem. I agree that Islam is still in the dark ages.

I disagree with calling Islam a religion of hate which is what you guys are trying to do. That doesn't solve anything.

 

if this study was about Muslim , it would be represented as :


Muslim rape 1.3 million women/year. 1 out of 4 Muslim women subject to abuse etc. ;

 

Hate the use of this "Islam forbids killing", "Religion of peace", "terrorism has no religion" so much, it's a blatant lie and not backed up by the Quran's teachings.

The book is the main reason for the violence and terrorism you see these days, yet muslims (and "tolerant" people) always narrow the argument down to phrases like "the religion itself is peaceful, people just misinterpret it" and throw out of context quotes in your face.

In Italy, the apartment I stayed in was dominated by Muslims, and it quickly showed that it's completely impossible to logically debate with many of the followers. These guys have been indoctrinated from birth and put Islam's teachings over everything, they'd never criticize their religion or call for a new Islam/Quran, talking about terrorism and violence always boils down to pathetic excuses and blaming people, but NEVER to the religion itself.

Also tried to argue about things like evolution, but it's impossible to use facts. Their "facts" are random Quran quotes and pseudo-scientific sites that are backed by Islam organizations. They will also tell you that only Islam is right, everything else is a lie. And these guys were graduating with honors from University and were high-class engineers living in a modern European country, so you would've expected a bit of common sense or scientific understanding.

Many muslims (not everyone, but hundreds I've met) are just so incredibly fanatic in their believes, even random things like Facebook profile pictures are full of comments like "mashallah", every part of life is dominated by this fanatic worshipping of Allah and the Quran.

So that's what happens when the book that dominates their entire life is full of violence and hate, the people will take the teachings to their heart and go to war for their believes. The only way out of this is a huge reform of Quran and the religion, playing the blame game and finding excuses won't do sh**.

But I think that will never happen, as it would mean acknowledging that their holy religion is at fault.

 

That's the problem, it's easy to justify killings and to call innocent people "guilty" when you look at many Quran verses. And that's what terrorists are doing, their terrorism is justified under certain interpretations.

 

It's not about Islam not forbidding killing 'innocents'. It's about WHO is and is not considered innocent...

 

Seriously, where's TJ?

 

Whenever ISIS comes up and the fact that they kill many Kurds, the leftists on the forum are quick to point out that most Kurds are Muslims.

I guess you guys turn the argument around whenever it suits you.

 

Dictums of Quran and Hadiths which may dictate/incite honor killing:

Quran- 4:15 “If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, take the evidence of four (reliable) witness from amongst you against them; if they testify, confine them to houses until death do claim them. Or God ordain for them some (other) way.”

Quran-24:2 “The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication—flog each of them with hundred stripes: Let no compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by God, if ye believe in God and the last day.”

Quran-17:32 “ Nor come nigh to adultery: for it is a shameful (deed) and an evil, opening the road (to other evils).

Quran-33:33 “stay quietly in your houses, and make not a dazzling display.”

Now some sahih hadiths:

Bukhari: Volume 7, Book 63, Number 196:
Narrated Abu Huraira: A man from Bani Aslam came to Allah's Apostle while he was in the mosque and called (the Prophet ) saying, "O Allah's Apostle! I have committed illegal sexual intercourse." On that the Prophet turned his face from him to the other side, whereupon the man moved to the side towards which the Prophet had turned his face, and said, "O Allah's Apostle! I have committed illegal sexual intercourse." The Prophet turned his face (from him) to the other side whereupon the man moved to the side towards which the Prophet had turned his face, and repeated his statement. The Prophet turned his face (from him) to the other side again. The man moved again (and repeated his statement) for the fourth time. So when the man had given witness four times against himself, the Prophet called him and said, "Are you insane?" He replied, "No." The Prophet then said (to his companions), "Go and stone him to death." The man was a married one. Jabir bin 'Abdullah Al-Ansari said: I was one of those who stoned him. We stoned him at the Musalla ('Id praying place) in Medina. When the stones hit him with their sharp edges, he fled, but we caught him at Al-Harra and stoned him till he died.
(See also Bukhari: Volume 7, Book 63, Number 195.)


Sahi Bukhari: 8:6814:
Narrated Jabir bin Abdullah al-Ansari: “A man from the tribe of Bani Aslam came to Allah’s Messenger [Muhammad] and informed him that he had committed illegal sexual intercourse; and he bore witness four times against himself. Allah’s Messenger ordered him to be stoned to death as he was a married person.”

Sahi Muslim No. 4206:
“A woman came to the prophet and asked for purification by seeking punishment. He told her to go away and seek God’s forgiveness. She persisted four times and admitted she was pregnant. He told her to wait until she had given birth. Then he said that the Muslim community should wait until she had weaned her child. When the day arrived for the child to take solid food, Muhammad handed the child over to the community. And when he had given command over her and she was put in a hole up to her breast, he ordered the people to stone her. Khalid b. al-Walid came forward with a stone which he threw at her head, and when the blood spurted on her face he cursed her.”

Sahih Al-Bukhari Vol 2. pg 1009; and Sahih Muslim Vol 2. pg 65:
Hadhrat Abdullah ibne Abbaas (Radiallahu Anhu) narrates the lecture that Hadhrat Umar (Radiallaahu Anhu) delivered whilst sitting on the pulpit of Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wa Sallam). Hadhrat Umar (Radiallahu Anhu) said, "Verily, Allah sent Muhammad (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) with the truth, and revealed the Quran upon him. The verse regarding the stoning of the adulterer/ess was from amongst the verse revealed (in the Quraan). We read it, secured it and understood it. Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) stoned and we stoned after him. I fear that with the passage of time a person might say, ‘We do not find mention of stoning in the Book of Allah and thereby go astray by leaving out an obligation revealed by Allah. Verily, the stoning of a adulterer/ress is found in the Quraan and is the truth, if the witnesses are met or there is a pregnancy or confession."

Al-Bukhari:
The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said, “Whoever guarantees me that he will guard his chastity, I will guarantee him Paradise”.

Al-Bukhari, Muslim, Abu Dawud, An-Nisa’i and others:
Abu Hurayrah reports that the Messenger of Allah said, “No one commits adultery while still remaining a believer, for faith is more precious unto Allah than such an evil act!” In another version, it is stated, “When a person commits adultery he casts away from his neck the bond that ties him to Islam; if, however, he repents, Allah will accept his repentance”.

Al-Bayhaqi:
The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said, “O mankind! Beware of fornication/adultery for it entails six dire consequences: three of them relating to this world and three to the next world. As for the three that are related to this world, they are the following: it removes the glow of one’s face, brings poverty, and reduces the life-span. As for its dire consequences in the next world they are: it brings down the wrath of Allah upon the person, subjects him to terrible reckoning, and finally casts him in hell-fire.”

 

for terrorism ,each group has its own story :

Qiyada : funded and operated jointly with the Saudi, the Saudi called them terroust in 1998 and encouraged the US to target them but Clinton declined that time .

Taliban: a group of youngsters born and grow up during Soviet invasions , have little or no knowledge of many of the basic of Islam.

ISIS: a group that contradict with 99.9% of Muslims, a mixed members of crazies and drugs addicts formed during US invasion to Iraq and post sectarian governments .every single person born in Iraq since 1981 has witnessed a continuous war.

BokoHaram : is no different, as the previous terrorist group, a direct result of dysfunctional environment

what they have all in commons? their victims 99% Sunni Muslims ,they hardly know about religion.


https://www.rescue-uk.org/sites/default/files/S Sudan event.pdf


how about violence in South Sudan among many, remarkably no one is calling it a Christian thing.

or blaming judism for Israelis inspired by their faith to steel lands and kill children

 

That is quite a disingenuous deflection of the fact that the Ankara bombing was done by a secular socialist organization.

Of course most Kurds are muslims, but the PKK organization is a secular anti-islamist socialist organization.

And I say that as someone who desperately would prefer that this group that I personally have sympathy for was not involved in this terrible act.

I would love to lay this at the feet of Islam as everyone in this board is incorrectly doing, but it is simply factually inaccurate if you decide to actually look into the matter.

 

how about ewe held every religion to one standard :


The Talmud supercedes the Old Testament in authority for the Jews. And the Talmud is the most racist, hate-mongering , blasphemous book the world has ever known.

The Talmud was written in Hebrew between the 3rd & 6th Centuries as a codification of the so-called Oral Law that the Jewish rabbis claim was handed down from Moses.

But the Messiah Jesus censored the “Oral Law” when He said, “By the traditions of your elders you make void the Word of God.” (St Matthew 15).

The English translation of the Talmud has been watered down so as to conceal from the Gentiles the “satanic verses” contained in the original Hebrew.

The “Satanic Verses” of the Talmud can be classified into 3 categories:

1) Jewish Supremacy.
2) Hatred Towards The “Goys” (Gentiles).
3) Blasphemies Against Jesus Christ, The Virgin Mary, & All Christians.
“If a ‘goy’ (Gentile) hits a Jew he must be killed.” (Sanhedrin 58b)

* “If a Jew finds an object lost by a ‘goy’ it does not have to be returned.” (Baba Mezia 24a)

* “If a Jew murders a ‘goy’ there will be no death penalty.” (Sanhedrin 57a)

* What a Jew steals from a ‘goy’ he may keep.” (Sanhedrin 57a)

* “Jews may use subterfuges to circumvent a ‘goy.’” (Baba Kamma 113a)

* “All children of the ‘goyim’ (Gentiles) are animals.” (Yebamoth 98a)

* “Girls born of the ‘goyim’ are in a state of ‘niddah’ (menstrual uncleanness!) from birth.” (Abodah Zarah 36b)

“The ‘goyim’ are not humans. They are beasts.” (Baba Mezia 114b)

* “If you eat with a ‘goy’ it is the same as eating with a dog.” (Tosapoth, Jebamoth 94b)

* “Even the best of the ‘goyim’ should all be killed.” (Soferim 15)

* “Sexual intercourse between the ‘goyim’ is like intercourse between animals.” (Sanhedrin 74b)

* “When it comes to a Gentile in peace times, one may harm him indirectly, for instance, by removing a ladder after he had fallen into a crevice.” (Shulkan Arukh, Yoreh De ‘ah, 158, Hebrew Edition only)

“‘Yashu’ (derogatory for ‘Jesus’) is in Hell being boiled in hot excrement.” (Gittin 57a)

[’Yashu’ is an acronym for the Jewish curse, ‘May his (Jesus) name be wiped out forevermore.’]

* Yashu (Jesus) was sexually immoral and worshipped a brick.” (Sanhedrin 107b)

* “Yashu (Jesus) was cut off from the Jewish people for his wickedness and refused to repent.” (Sotah 47a)

* “Miriam the hairdresser had sex with many men.” (Shabbath 104b, Hebrew Edition only)

* “She who was the descendant of princes and governors (the virgin Mary) played the harlot with carpenters.” (Sanhedrin 106a)

* “Christians who reject the Talmud will go to hell and be punished there for all generations.” (Rosh Hashanah 17a)

 

None of that ordains honor killings. By the way, adultery isn't included in your honor killing stats from above - if you include that it goes way up globally.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rajm

I was only speaking about the Quran to respond to Dada.

Honor killings (amongst many other things) are a problem in Islamic culture. The key word here is culture, not Islam. The difference is that some condemn and want reform of the culture, and others want to label the Quran as the problem and who knows what you want to see happened - but it's unrealistic and silly to think that people will give up being Muslim.

And finally - wtf! I thought you weren't going to be reading my posts anymore???? I hope you will keep it civil. I have no desire for personal attacks either direction.

 

For those not familiar with the history of Cordoba, Spain, please check it out to see how horrendous the Muslim culture was for 700 years.

 

That stuff might be in the Talmud but how often are Jews doing that? Outside of Israeli policies that are controversial, how many Jews worldwide are murdering "Goys" and suffering no penalty? There are millions of American Jews, do we think as group that they are incredibly intolerant? Do we think they are suddenly about to go on a killing rampage? You are just proving the point that what's written in the various holy books don't matter, it is how the religion is currently being interpreted and practiced by it's followers that is important.

You said hold all religions to the same standard...I say hold all PEOPLE to the same standard.

 

That is not what I asked about.

Try harder.

 

Hey Cohete, I'm not living with Jesus or Muhammed, I'm living with present-day idiots who are "interpreting or misinterpreting" their words--whatever the case, it's equally s**tty.

I don't think either of them should be elevated to some mythical status.

One hero of mine is Harvey Milk. It doesn't mean I think he will grant me eternal life, or I should assault some immigrants in his honor.