I think that is a little bit too extreme. Aren't you doing something you object others doing? You are assuming that a building full of those people will be contradicting with you in your understanding of God and communication with God. According to the Bible, all churches are supposed to be the same - God's house. However, we are living in a real world, none of the church is actually exactly the same. But despite the language they speaking, the people attending, I think the only difference MATTERS is whether they still see that as God's house, or rather Man's house in God's name. Church is a place for you to worship God with others and communicate with God with others, in God's house. Didn't the Bible tell us that if 2 or 3 people pray in His name, He will be with them? What about a building full of people? Maybe God is with them, how can you be sure that you will never make peace with them? I have questions regarding what some churches are doing, in God's name. I am also troubled by what some people are doing in Christian's name. But I am quite sure i can still find a church, where people are looking for God's words, seeking for communication with him, and sharing experience with God and own understanding of God and how God spoke to them. What matters is the heart, not the formality that all rise at this paragraph of this hymn.
I think the distinction here is that I am not letting the bible dictate my faith to me. The bible is just a book of stories, having little to do with one's relationship to god. As such, a church's misuse of this literature is indicative of inherent bias. Maybe it is to extreme - I'm still working on that one. Like I said, I'm recovering.
A church's misuse of the bible is indicative of arrogance, selfishness, greed, bitterness, insecurity, hatred and several other possible influences. The bible does not dictate it communicates. You read it and receive a message or receive nothing. You don't have to recover from the bible. You can recover from the abuse of Christians and churches, but I don't think you should find the bible abusive towards you or anyone else. Jesus Christ is the point of the bible and He doesn't abuse IMHO Read the words in red (Christ's own words) and then see if there is a message.
I have. And that's why I won't go to church. I prefer to look at all of the spiritual guidance available to me. For example, buddism makes a nice pairing with christ's teachings. Any time a group refuses to evaluate more than just their own inherent beliefs, I know I am not interested in being a part of that. Spirituality is more than just conforming to some predisposed notion of god or gods. It's fundamentally between nature, god, and your understanding of how they interact. Everything else is idle chatter, meaningless verbage inherently tainted with societal bias and political motivation. It's why, rhester, that I don't think your quote from Hebrews earlier is worth anything. It's the sum of the whole, not little pieces that are currently applicable to a certain situation. Religion is, at its truth, collectivism. I don't want a part of it. I'll think for myself instead.
Very well said. I tried to put in a reply, but after I saw yours, simply gave up the idea. Personally, I never liked arrogant lecturing, no matter it's science or faith. I used to have tons of questions about everything in the Bible. I never really get answers for all of them, but somehow I don't ask the same questions again, simply because I felt that connection, and those aren't questions for me any more. rhadamanthus, I don't think one should ever let one man's intepretation of God's words direct his life or faith, even it's from a well-respected, very knowledgable, very caring and loving pastor. The communication with God is personal, and it's between man and God, although you can share your feelings and experience with others, but no 2 Christians experienced and learned to know God in exact same way. Prayer certainly helps, and the Bible gives you something to know how Jesus lived and loved, maybe you can feel He is speaking to you, directly into your heart, someday. The book is certainly not, and should never be something used by man to represent themselves to direct and force others.
I agree with you. I could be wrong here. Although I might be a not so good Christian, I am a Christian. I never really liked the word "religion", because what it represents is always some organized group. No matter what original purpose it might have been, man is always greedy enough to drive that into some interest group. In Chinese, you can have multiple intepretations of the word "Christian": a) a disciple of Christ b) someone who believes in Christ c) a member of the religion of Christianity. I simply object the third intepretation.
It's the message. Christians believe or experience a Christ that is alive. A Spirit that communicates with our own inner self. Relationship is a better description. Religion has more to do with a belief or a point of view. Relationship is interaction and companionship- friendship if you will. People who attend churches can only serve as points of reference to Christ. They cannot be Christ. Unless you have a relationship with Christ you will have a distorted view of Christianity because the only reference point you have is Christians. They can be a bunch of hypocrites or a very good reference point and everything in between.
Well, he didn’t die so that we could willfully keep sinning. He came to change the nature of our relationship with God. He came to change the rules, or more accurately he came to establish a new rule that transcends and completes the old rules. Hebrews 8 1The point of what we are saying is this: We do have such a high priest, who sat down at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven, 2and who serves in the sanctuary, the true tabernacle set up by the Lord, not by man. 3Every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices, and so it was necessary for this one also to have something to offer. 4If he were on earth, he would not be a priest, for there are already men who offer the gifts prescribed by the law. 5They serve at a sanctuary that is a copy and shadow of what is in heaven. This is why Moses was warned when he was about to build the tabernacle: "See to it that you make everything according to the pattern shown you on the mountain."[a] 6But the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, and it is founded on better promises. 7For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. 8But God found fault with the people and said: "The time is coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah. 9It will not be like the covenant I made with their forefathers when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they did not remain faithful to my covenant, and I turned away from them, declares the Lord. 10This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time, declares the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. 11No longer will a man teach his neighbor, or a man his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,' because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest. 12For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more."[c] 13By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear. ------- Unfortunately there are still many Christian churches that essentially teach the old covenant while minimizing or ignoring the new covenant. This is a very, very, very bad thing because it essentially denies that Christ is who he said he is. It denies that accepting Christ’s sacrifice is enough to forgive a person for their sins. If, through Christ’s sacrifice, Christians’ wickedness is forgiven and “God will remember their sins no more,” then a Church's teachings to Christians should go forward from this point. How do we live our life as Christians? If a Church teaches its people that they need to comply with a OT law to ensure their salvation, as some churches spend most of their time doing, then they are not being faithful to the teachings of Christ. They are not following a literal interpretation of the Bible, and I believe they are leading non-Christians away from Christ.
If Christians really believe that "all sin is equal" than why do they go after so many people? I am an agnostic and went to a Christian school and kids that weren't hardcore christian or kids caught drinking were looked at as being awful. The kids that drank were kicked out. If they really believed all sin was equal, any student committing a sin including interrupting a teacher in class, should also be expelled, because that is just as bad according to the bible. That is not respecting authority. I also loved when the pastors and bible teachers woudl bash christians who smoked cigarettes, listened to secular music, and went to "secular movies". Some of that stuff may be considered sin in the bible, but "every sin is equal". Well let's start jailing people not just for killing people and molesting children, but let's arrest people for saying the word f^^k when they bang there knee. If all sin is equal, than pastors and christians all over the country should stop bashing gays, non christians. They should especially stop insulting fellow chrisitans because they are being hypocritical, because their sins are just as bad as the rest . That is just as bad as killing someone. I loved hearing that thinking that you want someone to die is just as bad as actually following through with it. Hilarious. On a more serious note, tell that to the parents of someone who's been murdered. Tell them that when they curse, it is just as bad as the sin the person who killed their son committed. Well you can't tell them that, because Christians (I don't want to generalize because not all christians are like) don't follow and talk about everything in the Bible, because even they know it sounds r****ded and they don't want to be questioned on it.
did you read "velvet elvis" yet?? by the way...are you in houston??? if you are, here's a church to check out that i think you'd like. http://www.ecclesiahouston.org at the very least it might make you reconsider some of your thoughts on churches, in general. if you want to do that.
Not yet. One of the classes I am enrolled in for my masters program involves reading about a 1000 pages (no exaggeration). I have to get through that first... I am in houston, and I'll think about it.
^ Ouch Hey MadMax: I was browsing the shelves at Borders, looking to get something for.. her. Then I saw a copy of Velvet Elvis and it struck me - wasn't this book recommended by some guy on the Internet who lives on the other side of the world? So I bought it. It's a present for her, but I've thumbed through it myself. I'd be lying if I said I read the whole thing from start to finish. Still, it's written quite clearly and concisely, plus it's not a very long book to begin with. I found Movements One, Three and Six more interesting and.. well, telling. If modern Christians are indeed taking the faith in this direction, I suppose that can only be a good thing for the world Still, I have to say Velvet Elvis will be far more beneficial to Christians than to free thinkers such as myself. It's an inspirational, feel-good sort of book - perhaps too much so, if you get what I mean. I guess to me, life/God/the universe is not just about light, happiness, love and "good".. it's also about embracing (yes, embracing) darkness, sorrow, nothingness and "evil". Because they're two sides of the same coin to me. Told you I was insane Perhaps a better question than who's right, is who's living rightly? He's hit the nail on the head with that one. Living in tune with reality is the right way, he says. And that, I say, should be all that matters - whether or not you believe Jesus died for your sins, etc etc. I don't want to be told what's "reality", though. Not even by Jesus or Buddha or whoever. It's my responsibility to perceive it, figure it out for myself. And if there are consequences, I'll bear them myself. So anyway.. thanks for the recommendation
The bible never said all sins are equal. That's just a common misconception (along with "we are all God's children", "God helps those who help themselves", "cleanliness is next to godliness", "money is the root of all evil", etc. etc.). Essentially, it is a religious cliche. What the bible does say is that if you break one commandment, you have broken the whole law, because God is perfect and he will not regard sin, no matter how little it is. It does not mean they're all equal -- in many places distinctions are made between varying levels of wickedness. The point is that you cannot earn your salvation by trying to be "better" than other people or doing "good works". In other words, "I never beat my wife or lie to my boss" doesn't cut it by God's standard. Salvation is unattainable through human effort.
wow, that's cool that you picked it up. i agree that it's most directed as a sort of new "reformation"...and in that sense is probably best directed towards believers. but i think it also does a nice job of presenting thoughts that many believers have regarding who Christ really was and is to those who have grown disenchanted by the twistings and posturings of the Church. don't embrace evil...you're right, that is crazy!
GW Bush says he is a Christian and has been spiritually transformed by Christianity and he fully supports Rumsfeld and sees Rumsfeld as anything but evil. It seems then that there is no consensus among Christians as what qualifies as a Christian or being transformed spiritually. This is why I'm not sure I understand the concept of "sin" and it seems that it is far from absolute and that even Christians rationalize sin.
