I agree to an extent but in Isabel's case it seems like the other guy has been pretty selfish. True we haven't heard his POV but its hard for me to muster up sympathy for a guy lives off of his wife so he can sit around all day. While its admirable of him to sacrifice his career to follow his wife but that doesn't mean he then has to do nothing to add to their livelihood. To stress again this is somewhat unfair because we haven't heard from Ferdinand but it seems to me Isabels been thinking about the other person quite abit. Maybe too much. I've heard a statistic that the more marriages someone has the less likely they are going to last so the percentage of successful marriages from first to second to third drops rapidly until you get to a serial matrimony like Liz Taylor. That said I think whether Isabel has another marriage or not isn't the point at the moment because she's pondering getting out of this one because her current one is miserable and not because she's met another beau who she's thinking of getting hitched too. The problem I see with the "til death do us part" is that in societies where divorces are very difficult to get it isn't that rare that its til death do us part when one of the partners, usually the husband, kills the other because their marriage is miserable. The other problem I see with it is that while I believe in reincarnation life as we know it is finite. If there aren't children or other factors is it worth to stay with someone for the rest of your lives when you make each other miserable. True not knowing Isabel or Ferdinand personally its possible they got married without really knowing each other that well. Unfortunately that happens all the time. Plus people have been known to change, sometimes for the better and sometimes for the worse. As I said though I'm not married and haven't been and am not much of a traditionalist so I might be biased against marriage but I just don't see the necessity of staying in a horrible marriage out of tradition.
WHAT ELSE COULD I SAY WATCHING SOMEONE KILL HER OWN LIFE KNOWING SHE DOES NOT HAVE THE GIT TO CUT IT life is misery for people who are nice but weak.
I can sympathize having a few tough times in my life too but I still don't think that is a reason to sit around all day not doing anything. Speaking for myself when I've had rough periods it felt far worse to sit around not doing anything than doing something menial. Ferdinand is an educated guy so even while he might not be able to get a great challenging exciting job he could certainly do something like clerical temp work. For that matter since Isabel teaches at a college he could also go back and work on his PHD or take extension classes to increase his skills. Not knowing Ferdinand or hearing his POV I admit I'm coming off as a bit of a hard @ss but its hard for me to muster sympathy for him. My job is episodic with periods of a lot of work and then periods where things are very slow. From that there are two types of stress, one where I'm stressed out because I'm working too much and the other because I'm worried about whether we'll get more work and I can tell you the latter is worse.
You should it would be interesting to read. I've come close to marriage twice, both times with Catholics and for some reason have ended up dating a lot of Catholics. Those experiences haven't made me a big fan of the Catholic Church but then again I went to Catholic school for awhile which didn't leave a great impression either.
What is the point in telling someone they are right or wrong. I don't think any of us have enough info to really make that call. You have to make that decision and it seems like you have. We certainly have never heard Ferdinand's thoughts on the matter, so I think everything will have to be on pretty general advice. Leaving someone who desperately doesn't want you to and you can see it is breaking their heart isn't easy by any means. It feels awful. I think we can understand that and let you know that we know you are going through something extremely difficult right now. Likewise we also know how it sucks to be left, and what should be done to make the best of it. I don't think you should seek or listen to anyone telling you what it is right or wrong to leave or stay in the situation. You seem to have made up your mind, and like I said before, you are just wallowing in your own misery and making him suffer. It is a very hard thing to do, but if you are determined to do it, then just get done and let the healing begin for both of you. Let him get on with his life, and don't waste his time, thinking that it will somehow be easier for you. Likewise you need to get on with your life, so just do it. All we can do is try and help you now that you've made that decision. We shouldn't pass judgement(good or bad) on that decision because it isn't ours to make. I'm sure part of you wants people to come on here and tell you are doing the right thing, and it is all going to be ok, and say so many things that it will ease your guilt. Your guilt may or may not be justified but it doesn't matter, because you have spent a while with your husband, and were in a marriage together, and even if you don't have a future with Ferdinand you want positive things for him, and no matter what is right or wrong it can't help but make you feel bad to break someone's heart like that. Trust me, I wish that wasn't the case, but it is. So just do it and let the both of you move on since that is the decision you have made.
3814, I've been married 27 years, and I'm one of those suggesting that she put this relationship behind her. Oh, if only life were as cut and dried as you seem to think it should be. Some people are just not meant to be with each other. Were there children involved, it would be far more complicated, and keeping an essentially failed relationship together for their welfare can be seen as having worth as an idea. There are no children, thank goodness, so why bust Isabel's chops for wanting to cut her loses and move on? And why on earth do you think people truly get to know each other by the time they are married? I lived with my wife, off and on, for 4 years before we took the plunge. I am still learning things about her. I think the fact that we are so damned complicated as people is one of the main reasons our marriage has been a success.
the last thing i intend to do is bust her chops...instead of encouraging her to "cut her losses" like all of you are doing, i'm encouraging her to "find her happiness." i do believe there is still hope, and i'm not one that thinks it's just fine to give up on something, especially something as important as a marriage. if you can't be dedicated to the one thing in your life that needs dedication, what does that say? i'm not meaning to put her down, i'm just trying to get her to think outside the box and question her motives and reasons for what she is doing. oh, and deckard, of course you are always learning things about a person, even years upon years after knowing them - but most know the character of the person before marriage - which is the crucial thing to know about one before making a LIFELONG committment.
A relationship doesn't mean being with whoever happens to be around. It should mean being with that one person you can't live without. Two people should be equally important, not one more, not one less.
No offense but that sounds to me like you're telling Isabel to go to her "Happy Place" and just suck it up and deal with the rest. I've only been active on Clutchfans BBS for about a year but it seems like in this whole time that Isabel has been stuck in an unhappy marriage and according to her this has been going on for longer than that. It seems to me that she has thought about this for quite awhile and isn't making a rash decision. I'll agree as a society we're too rash and selfish but as much as I can tell Isabel isn't just checking out because her marriage has hit a rough snag but is making a decision with a lot of consideration for her partner. At the same time I'm for dedication but dedication to what end? At a certain point you just realize you've made yourself miserable and lost years to an unproductive and unfulfilling relationship. Unfortunately Isabel has already admitted getting married in the first place might've been a mistake and that she was young with low self-esteem. The truth is a lot of us make mistakes when we are young with low self-esteem and at the time we have no sense of the implications of that. In Isabel's case where they don't have kids I don't see why out of tradition she should be forced to stay paying for that mistake.
This is BS. It's a guilt trip. The guy is older than you. He went for a PhD - it's not like he gave up his true calling for immediate monetary gratification so that he could support you and a family. Please. Maybe there are decisions he would make differently if he hadn't been married, but... If you two had an equal relationship, he would have at least brought it up. If you claim you're the one who was depressed and that you settled, wouldn't that indicate that he was the one who had the initial power in the relationship? That he was the one who would make decisions for the two of you? You're right - you wouldn't wish this sort of thing on anybody. However, it's usually the girl who gets stuck giving things up in the relationship, whether it's due to the guy's job or raising a family. He needed to say something a loooong time ago. Clearly, communication between the two of you hasn't been free-flowing for a while, if ever. Also, I don't think people should jump on 3814. If you are simply looking to leave a relationship without attempting counseling, I can see why he, Ferdinand, and others say what they do.
Hey Isabel, Not that I'm comparing your situation to this person's, but since you've been feeling down about your situation for some time now, I thought you might find this kind of interesting. http://www.salon.com/mwt/col/tenn/2005/08/01/fingernails/index.html?sid=1372602 Click the ad. It's worth it.
i guess all i'm really trying to say...is fight for it before giving up on it. isabel, it sounds like you've been down for a while and the only major consideration has been to leave him one way or another some time or another. i think you should strongly consider marriage counselling and fight for it before giving up on it. if you then choose to break it off, that's your decision, but i honestly believe that any marriage is worth fighting for (other than abusive situations). did you know that there are higher success rates in marriages between people who are set-up by family or whatever than marriages that are "chosen" (the north american way). that says something, that portrays how we as a society act - selfishly. other people in the world don't even know the person they are going to marry before they do - and it still is a success -- surely you can at least put up a fight, and an honest one - not one where you are just going to counselling to say you did and then break up with him - one where you truly fight for you marriage. if it doesn't work it doesn't work - but at least you both can say you fought for it.
I am going to weigh in late to specifically disagree with this. This relationship died in Isabel's mind more than 3 years ago. The only thing keeping them together is the fact that they happened to be married. The situation highlights the arbitraryness of the institution of marriage (especially as practiced by the Catholic church) rather than "modern selfishness". Isabel needs to stop being a maryr to anachronistic institutions and get on with her life. I sympathise well with Ferdinand; my wife has grown away from me quite a bit (discovered some new facets to life). Fortunately, Ive been more successful professionally which surely makes it easier to take. Isabel, do you think that deep down, Ferdinand is happy for your success or not? Whatever, forget counselling, you shouldnt prolong the inevitable.
I'd recommend you read thru her Livejournal(the link in her sig) before passing judgement on whether or not she has tried to make it work. This has not been a rash judgement made without any due consideration for the marriage or her partner. I would not have said what I did had I not already been familiar with the situation(as much as one can be by reading her journal entries) As usual.....good posts by both Deck and Blade....are these guys the most level-headed posters you have ever seen or what?
Hey Isabel, Been reading your live journal (I am on vacation this week and that seems to be the most entertaining thing I am doing, LOL) and was wondering what this meant: "I think a part of him deep down resented me for "taking" his hopes and dreams and sense of self, even though I didn't do it; he made those choices himself. I didn't try to run over him. I tried to help him - maybe not always in the best ways, but I was young - in any case, I would have been more attracted to him if he'd been more of "himself" in the first place. He always seemed more like some weird phantom on the fringes of my world... he was the one trying to plow himself under. Not sure if this makes sense." Did you ever know what Ferdie was like before you married him? Was he a completely different person? What is this BS about you shattering his dreams? Sorry for being nosy but the answers to these questions might help lend more insight to your situation (you may have already answered them).
Here's the deal. We didn't actually get hitched for a while, so I knew what he was... I just didn't think there would ever be anything better, and didn't want to mess with a stable thing. I realize now how young I was, but it didn't seem young then. I think one of our problems was that, psychologically, we committed to this relationship at a very early stage. Especially him. We were both inexperienced and didn't know how to handle a relationship, nor how to get out of one. Now, before I got together with him, he had been pursuing a Ph.D. in geology so he could teach at a university. He tried twice and didn't make it to the doctorate, with one spell of unemployment (sound familiar?) in between. I wasn't around for this. When we were a new couple, I didn't want him to leave Houston for work. (He says now that he didn't want to do that either, and probably wouldn't have, but I probably pressured him. Bad young Isabel, and suffering for my sins now.) He taught as an adjunct for three years, which is not exactly full-time employment. He's followed me twice: to Austin (after a year), and then out here. I think he resents that, though he claims he doesn't regret it and that his life has been "subsumed to my needs". He kept thinking he could get better jobs than he did. If his career dissatisfaction was that great, it's too bad he couldn't just be a man and tell me that he had to do what he had to do. Sometimes he didn't even work at all. I didn't mean to be that ambitious in my career. I wasn't at first. I was going to hang around Houston and work. Let him see what he wanted. But nothing was working out for him anyway. I liked the community college he taught at; I thought, "let me go get my doctorate, maybe I can do that too, and then they can hire him". (there is more demand in my field) So... I did. I've gone from nothing to a bachelor's to a Ph.D. and tenure track position and he's still spinning his wheels. If he just got jobs, didn't complain, and worked on his hobbies or academic pursuits on the side, that's one problem we wouldn't have. It's like I would have been willing to follow him, but he had nothing, and I figured one of us had to do something. The irony is that I'm going to have to start my career over soon anyway. I don't think I was being true to myself when I followed this course of study. I wanted to make sure I had a stable job for mine and Ferdinand's future. But even now... that I have no particular ambitions for myself and can work in any framework... he doesn't think he'll "make it", so he thinks he necessarily has to be miserable. Besides, our relationship is too damaged for me to want to make further plans together. Maybe it was just our personalities that did not mesh... I never meant to keep him from being himself. Quite the opposite. I hate that he must have felt like he couldn't. What I wish we could do now is separate so he could go rediscover himself. Thanks for reading... oh, and Manny, for your own sake, please try to do something more exciting with your vacation. Go out and have a good time while you have the chance.
hmmm, isabel. sounds pretty interesting and definitely more intricate than you can express in a few paragraphs. everyone knows that rltnships are a tangled web of feelings, expectations, hopes, fears, etc with one other person. from what you wrote, i can see how you feel you've been doing more harm for him career wise and i can understand the "go discover who he is" line. i'd say if you tried enough and are tired of it...move on. sometimes when you get too comfortable with something, you don't know what to do with yourself. good luck!
Is anyone else curious as to where Isabel is? She's always made vague references to the town, but never come out and said it. I think I have it figured out though. Of course, it's probably in her journal.
I got 29 ways to make it to my baby’s door I got 29 ways to make it to my baby’s door But if she needs me bad I can find about two or three more One - through the basement, two - down the hall When the going gets rough, I got a hole in the wall I got 29 ways to make it to my baby’s door But if she needs me bad I can find about two or three more I can come down the chimney like a santa claus Crawl through the window and that ain’t all I got lot of good ways I don’t want you to know I even got a hole in her bedroom floor I got 29 ways to make it to my baby’s door I got 29 ways to make it to my baby’s door But if she needs me bad I can find about two or three more Oh, yes I can
