you really lack a broad perspective and unfortunately because of that you fail to see the interdependendcy of our system...the trickle down theory (rich pissing on the poor) does not work.
The O'Jays... Money money money money, money Some people got to have it Some people really need it Listen to me y'all, do things, do things, do bad things with it You wanna do things, do things, do things, good things with it Talk about cash money, money Talk about cash money- dollar bills, yall For the love of money People will steal from their mother For the love of money People will rob their own brother For the love of money People can't even walk the street Because they never know who in the world they're gonna beat For that lean, mean, mean green Almighty dollar, money For the love of money People will lie, Lord, they will cheat For the love of money People don't care who they hurt or beat For the love of money A woman will sell her precious body For a small piece of paper it carries a lot of weight Call it lean, mean, mean green Almighty dollar I know money is the root of all evil Do funny things to some people Give me a nickel, brother can you spare a dime Money can drive some people out of their minds Got to have it, I really need it How many things have I heard you say Some people really need it How many things have I heard you say Got to have it, I really need it How many things have I heard you say Lay down, lay down, a woman will lay down For the love of money All for the love of money Don't let, don't let, don't let money rule you For the love of money Money can change people sometimes Don't let, don't let, don't let money fool you Money can fool people sometimes People! Don't let money, don't let money change you, it will keep on changing, changing up your mind.
Not really. Warren Buffet has a lower tax rate than his secretary. Think about it. Most of his income is not from payroll taxes and a salary, then you have many deductions. The richest man in the world was taxed at only 17.7% on $46 mil in 2006. While his secretary was taxed at at 30% for $60k. If taxes were such a burden, then European Billionaires would have moved to the USA, a long time ago. Their rates are crazy, even for the middle class!!
I can't speak to when "everyone cries foul" or when "people claim the wealthy are sucking their blood dry" as I don't think I've done that and I don't know many people who have. It's dangerous to equate the complaints of a vocal minority with the attitudes of "everyone". I don't think there are nearly as many parasites as you sound like you think there are. In the end, the wealthy are still much wealthier than the poor in America, even with the higher tax rate. And in my opinion, you have to look at it from a broader perspective than just one individual who has to pay a higher share of his hard earned money than another individual who receives benefits from the government without contributing to it. The economy as a whole and the country as a whole benefit when there are many people who can live a decent life. And that doesn't mean the wealthy can't live an extravagant life (or even an above-average life). Are there really a lot of upper-class folks whose lives were negatively affected by an extra 3-5% in taxes? I think that's the bottom line thinking. It might not be directly fair to tax the upper class at a higher rate than the lower class, but it is often in society's best interest to do that as long as the people who pay a higher share don't have such a great burden that they can no longer maintain their status.
BTW, that 30% is high for a secretary even before the Bush tax cuts. It's actually about 27%, when you include the NE state income tax.
Your argument makes a litany of assumptions about the social lottery, equality of opportunity, economic/social mobility, etc. that I'm sure others have already hit on to some degree and I don't feel like laying out in full. I'll simply make two points: 1. Your argument assumes that everyone can 'make it.' That is not how our economy/society is designed. It's a cliche, but "the world needs ditch diggers too." Our economy would collapse without cheap labor. We can't all be doctors, lawyers, i-bankers, or professors. Managers exist because there is someone there to manage. So, BY NECESSITY, there must be a lower class. Even if everyone maximized every opportunity and worked as hard as possible to achieve their dreams, someone would wind up working the barista at Starbucks or manning the drive thru at McDonald's These jobs are necessary for the economy and so they HAVE to be fulfilled. The necessity of this hierarchy in our system means that either way someone will be punished. The question is, will it be the people who crapped out in the social lottery and work minimum wage jobs not being able to afford basic things like health care because of the role they BY NECESSITY fill in society. Or, will it be the people who enjoy a higher station in life who have slightly less income to work with. Yes, some people are just plain lazy. Yes, some people will abuse the system. But the innocence/guilt principle applies here. It's better to let a 100 guilty men go free than execute one innocent person. Likewise, better to ease the burden of those whose blood greases the wheels of industry, and risk some people freeloading than reduce the entire group to absolute serfdom. 2. Guess what, most of those people you cite as being 'responsible,' are beneficiaries of government redistribution. When Affirmative Action was White argues that the New Deal was largely responsible for building the 'middle class' of today. The privilege that you and many others enjoy, and the good money sense you have was likely in part a product of historical forces that handed you a winning ticket in the lottery of birth. What is so terrible about paying slightly more in income taxes because of the winning hand you were dealt? The Cadillac driving welfare queen is a myth perpetrated by Reaganite propaganda. It doesn't exist. Are there lazy poor people? Yes. Are there lazy rich people? Yes. I'm in grad school right now, I'll be in law school next year, after that I'll likely clerk for a year or two, work in the private sector for two more, then hopefully get a job as a law professor. I'll be working my ass off 14 hours a day for the next seven years, just to get a CHANCE at the job I want. And I have no problem being taxed a higher percentage on my eventual income. Why? Because I know that my intellect and my opportunities were given to me, whether by god or the random chance of a cold empty universe, I don't know. What I do know is that if my mom and dad had conceived 'me' several seconds later, or placed me in a different school system, or not served me a good breakfast every morning, I may be a radically different person with radically different life prospects. And here's the thing... as much as you'd like to think your success is a result of your own hard work, good decisions, and moral fiber, your success is JUST as contingent on factors beyond your control as mine, or anyone else's. And you paying a little more in taxes will reduce far more human misery than it would sitting in your pocket. Take a tip from the Stoic philosopher Epictetus: ""Never say of anything 'I lost it,' but say, 'I gave it back.'"
Yes I Love money spend ever minute bathing in it and wouldn't have it any other way. Well since the prole doesn't want money, can I please have mine back? Seriously, the problem facing this country is not a lack of money but how that money is management. The middle class is in over their head with debt and overspending. Have no real savings and no investments to make money for them and help them pull out of their current predicament. Meanwhile people like me saved every penny they could, invested it, let the money grow and now when it comes to reaping the rewards, the habitual chain-spenders want their cut. I saved 20 % down for my mortgage, bought an average car for work, never took credit for granted and slowly made my way up the food chain. While these poor people spent every dime they had on living the life, bought houses they could never afford, drove cars they never made payment on and have more debt than some countries GDP. So in the end I could careless for their struggle because I have seen the mismanagement of money up close and personal within my family and friends. Look I'm no millionaire but I make just enough that this socialism plan is going to hurt me for no good reason while I played my part of being a responsible citizen.
I'm curious because I wasn't at voting age during most of the Clinton era, but was anybody shouting socialism (communism) when Clinton was president or running for president? Honest question.
ghettocheeze, With the current tax system, I get taxed more than the rich guys like Buffet. It's a redistribution of income from the middle class to the rich guys's pocket books, because of various loopholes. The marginal tax bracket may seem high. However, it's not the true tax burden, when deductions and loopholes are taken into account. I was at a real estate investor's club meeting. One of the wealthy real estate investors said he could lower his tax burden to zero, but he would go ahead and pay "something". He was serious, too, nobody looked at him like it was impossible.
You're really generalizing, and I'm not even sure it's based on people you know. It sounds like you think that the small percentage of people who took out bad loans (in many cases because they were told that's the smartest move to make money) are actually representative of all people who make less money than you. In reality, it is not even close. If you can understand or accept that, then your anger is no longer a valid reason to oppose the policies. You can still be angry at those that take advantage of the system, but it doesn't make sense to go the next step and apply those failings to everybody else.
If you make for instance $275k, just enough to get hit by the "socialist plan", increasing taxes on income over $250k, your extra $25k income would be taxed at 3% higher or $750. With your vituous lifestyle this should not kill you. Nor should it prevent you from becoming a millionaire. Perhaps you are not studying the issues, but just applying conservative anti-tax rhetoric?
Funny you say this in the midst of a massive financial crisis caused, in large part, by large Wall Street banks and hedge funds taking on huge amounts of leverage and mismanaging their finances by underestimating risk.
Would you rather be: 1) rich and pay higher taxes (which you can afford) or 2) poor and see no tax increase? I think we would all rather be # 1. So to Joe the Plumber...waaaah you're doing better than most Americans.
