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Reasons for the lost of Yao's outside touch?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by hikanoo49, Dec 26, 2004.

  1. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    But he's hitting only 36% of his jumpshots, down from 42% last year.

    Not a huge decrease, but a noticeable one.
     
  2. Sishir Chang

    Sishir Chang Member

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    This is what bothers me about JVG and others who immediately look at Yao and want to park him under the basket. While its obvious that height provides a huge advantage in the paint it also provides a big advantage all over the court. People you used to say that Larry Bird was a great outside shooter because he could use his height to get clear looks at the basket over smaller players. He also didn't need to elevate, use his legs, as much to shoot.

    Yao's shooting touch is one of the things that makes him special and IMO its a waste to just try to develop him as a banger. Anyway as many have noticed he's not that great at that. We should be capitalizing on all of Yao's skills and think about playing him inside and outside. I've always thought some great plays would be to let Yao set up in the high posts where he could either pull up and shoot over smaller defenders in a zone or pass into cutters.
     
  3. Summer Song Giver

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    Elbow/brace

    The easiest answer is usualy the best one.
     
  4. clove

    clove Member

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    Maybe once we have our bigger problems figured out, Yao will time to concentrate on getting his shot back.

    As long as he gets his 20/10 and shoots over 50%, I suppose it doesn't matter how he's getting it.
     
  5. clove

    clove Member

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    The big fella is growing on you a little bit huh?

    lol.

    I was expecting a "because he sucks" from you.
     
  6. snowmt01

    snowmt01 Member

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    I think it's because Yao is playing well recently. If he can keep
    up with 11 rbs 2.4 blks all his career, everyone will be happly.

    Considering the number of shots he is taking, scoring
    is our least concern. He will be a 20+ scorer in due time.
     
  7. clove

    clove Member

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    I hear ya.

    There will always be Yao haters though. It doesn't really matter if he puts up 23/11/2 every game.
     
  8. Dr of Dunk

    Dr of Dunk Clutch Crew

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    Hakeem could shoot 16 foot fadeaways, 18 foot jumpers, and bang on the interior. By the time Dream was done, he had pushed his jumpshot out to 16-18 feet.

    But then one of those comes about once a few decades. :)
     
  9. snowmt01

    snowmt01 Member

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    Considering Hakeem had a slightly lower FG% than Yao,
    had the clutch bbs existed in early 90s, would there have had
    threads like

    1) stop shooting jumpers
    2) dunk the ball rather than soft layups

    Anyone has Hakeem's dunking clips, because in most of my
    Hakeem collections, he was doing layups and shooting jumpers.

    Maybe Shaq and Walton have changed the whole definition of
    Center Offense
    "Throw it down, Bigman".
    It has got into people's head. ;)
     
  10. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    "not dunking" was not a problem that Olajuwon had in his first few years. In fact it was pretty much the bread and butter of his offense, as it was in college (phi slamma jamma?)

    [​IMG]
     
  11. Patience

    Patience Member

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    Seems like Yao is right there offensively. I think his FG% is revealing. He also seems to be shooting A LOT more free throws lately. If he can cut down on turnovers, we'll be set at center. Maybe we need a Robert Horry type to feed the post. Many of Yao's TO's come on the feed to the post. I'm sure not all of them are Yao's fault.
     
  12. Hard Rock

    Hard Rock Member

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    I thought everyone wants him to dunk more? that's why he hasn't practice on his J no more. :(
     
  13. Dr of Dunk

    Dr of Dunk Clutch Crew

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    Few people chastised Hakeem because he took over the team and made it his own. He wasn't content being a philosopher about basketball. Hakeem also played in an era where there were other good big men guarding him. Mark Eaton, Kevin McHale, Robert Parish, David Robinson, Kareem Abdul Jabbar, Patrick Ewing, Shaq in his prime (or very close to it). Hakeem also dominated on defense. He was the complete package. Yao is not on that level. Nowhere near it at this point in his career - they were both #1 picks. Now you see why people expect more - they probably shouldn't, but...

    He came out of college from a Houston Cougars team dubbed "Phi Slamma Jamma". Early in his career all Hakeem did was dunk on people. He really didn't have much of an outside game at all (if any). As time went on, he knew that he was outweighed by 15-20 lbs and usually 2-4 inches shorter than the people he was playing against, so he took his game outside to gain an advantage. He became a complete offensive player - he could dominate the paint when he wanted and he could shoot baseline fadeaway shots from 16-18 feet that were automatic. My guess is your collection is too limited. :)
     
  14. Sishir Chang

    Sishir Chang Member

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    Is it me or does Yao's play seem less dynamic now?

    Not living in Houston or having NBA League pass I haven't gotten to see the Rox that much but I remember seeing some very dynamic highlights of Yao two years ago, doing the dream shake, Kareem sky hook, fingerrolls and the cricket pitch pass to Mobley. Mostly now Yao looks more conventional and predictable. Backing in to the basket for a dunk or lay up.

    Anyone else notice that and any thoughts on why his play seems less dynamic?
     
  15. daoshi

    daoshi Member

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    Then, you must have watched a different game from anyone else. Yao was a good outside shooter, not great, but good.


    That says something about your bball knowledge. Yao has a good shooting form, not perfect, but good. Larry Brown, Hubbie Brown, and other coaches even joked that NBA should send centers to China to learn how to shoot. You cannot find an uglier shooting form than R. Miller's, but the guy was considered an all-time great shooter. Shooting form is way overrated, just ask your hero R. Barry who had that lady-style two hands release, but still an all-time great shooter.


    That's true to some degree, but as young as Yao is at 24, it should not be a problem to play year around bball. Legs are important, but Rhyming is everything in shooting. The Rockets play an ugly, grit-it-out slow bball, which makes it hard for anyone to get into a shooting glove. That's why most of our players, and the teams we played agaist all had bad shooting % in general. Yao's outside touch has been effected just like everyone else.

    You cannot be predicatable in this league, or you will be figured out, then you are done. Yao is slow due to his height, he doesn't have the explosiveness to dominating in the post like Shaq, adding a consistent 15ft shots will make him a much better threat.
     
  16. Fegwu

    Fegwu Member

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    You missed the key point in the flaw I see in his shooting form. Yao has to be among the slowest in the NBA when it comes to releasing his jump shot. With such slow releases, it give his opponents time to recorver and trouble his shot. This makes him rush atimes in order to compensate for that flaw there forcing him to miss many open 12-15 footers. Now a normal or average NBA fan like you will not notice but if you speak to a few scout or get some videos you will see it for yourself. Use a stop watch and time his release time and compare it with other good shooting big men you know. That said his wrist, elbow foot positioning, and follow through is not in question.



    Hogwash. Predictability is this league only bothers the average ballers in the NBA. Everybody knows what tmac, Lebron, Shaq, Kobe etc will do on every giving night but that will never stop them. Only aging and injuries will the top tier players in this league and I consider Yao one of them. Heck every player in the NBA know that Mobley and Jalen Rose are south paws but they still find a way to beat most people going left. Greatness beats predictability most times all things being equal.
     
  17. Billionzz

    Billionzz Member

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    >>>That says something about your bball knowledge. Yao has a good shooting form, not perfect, but good. Larry Brown, Hubbie Brown, and other coaches even joked that NBA should send centers to China to learn how to shoot. You cannot find an uglier shooting form than R. Miller's, but the guy was considered an all-time great shooter. Shooting form is way overrated, just ask your hero R. Barry who had that lady-style two hands release, but still an all-time great shooter.<<<<

    Yes form does matter you may have a special few that can shot without form but it doesn't hold up under pressure, remember the Olympics?
    That being said Yao's shot isn't that bad but I would like to see him get his off hand out of the way (move it to the side of the ball instead of under and in front of the ball), plus he could put a little more arc on the ball.


    >>>>That's true to some degree, but as young as Yao is at 24, it should not be a problem to play year around bball. Legs are important, but Rhyming is everything in shooting. The Rockets play an ugly, grit-it-out slow bball, which makes it hard for anyone to get into a shooting glove. That's why most of our players, and the teams we played agaist all had bad shooting % in general. Yao's outside touch has been effected just like everyone else.<<<,

    I agree with you shooting does take leg power but not much at all from only around 15ft. I am sure Yao and anyone in the NBA should have enough strength late in the game to hit a 15 footer.
    I would say the problem is he isn't comfortable with his outside shot selection at this time, at least thats what it looks like watching the games.

    >>>>You missed the key point in the flaw I see in his shooting form. Yao has to be among the slowest in the NBA when it comes to releasing his jump shot. With such slow releases, it give his opponents time to recorver and trouble his shot. This makes him rush atimes in order to compensate for that flaw there forcing him to miss many open 12-15 footers. Now a normal or average NBA fan like you will not notice but if you speak to a few scout or get some videos you will see it for yourself. Use a stop watch and time his release time and compare it with other good shooting big men you know. That said his wrist, elbow foot positioning, and follow through is not in question<<<<

    Your right shooting form isn't just body alignment there are many diffrerent aspects of the shot which few people seem to realize.
    Must people think they know about shooting because someone taught them the BEEF method. There is alot more to it than that.
    We spend all kind of money breaking down a golf swing which in itself looks like a pretty simple motion then when it comes to shooting a basketball everyone thinks its just a couple simple things. Anybody can hit some good golf shots and anybody can hit a few jumpers but to consistantly do it is what makes all the difference.

    I think the slow part of his shot is more indecision, not being comfortable with his shot than anything else. One way to speed up your shot is to shoot it on the way up, not at the top of your jump. If your 7'5" it should be easy to shoot on the way up because you are already way above your man.
    He may have excess motioin before shooting I really haven't paid that much attention but it is something to look at.

    All that being said I am glad to see Yao taking it to the goal instead of just shooting from the outside. What would you do if you had a big body and was 7'5"?
     
  18. daoshi

    daoshi Member

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    Actually, I noticed that during his first year, and made some comment in a post. ;) His FT used to have that pause, kind of like Larry Jonhson's release, but that has changed. Yao's shooting release is a bit slow due to the distance it has to travel when he bring the ball up above his head, and it is not a problem at all for him since he usually just shoot without jumping. It becomes a problem when he trys to do those fade-away, or straight up jump shots, that's when his shots got blocked most. It's not practical to try to change this now since he has got used to it after playing this way his whole basketball career. The easier way to fix it is to close the space between him and his defender, so he can just shoot over the defender's head without jumping.

    That's not true. Stars players have more than one go-to moves, that's why they can always beat you. As for players like Rose, or Mobley, both those guys can pull up shoot the jump, that's why defenders cannot focus on their LEFT side.
     

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