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Reasonable? Gun Control Laws

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by bobrek, May 17, 2022.

  1. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    A well regulated militia is one where any individual can buy a gun without regulation.
     
  2. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    What's the issue here?
     
  3. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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    it's the bullet, not the "AR-15."

    Google the differences (a) between hollow-point ammunition and full metal jacket (and as an aside, google Geneva Convention and full metal jacket), and then google the differences (b) between rifles and handguns.

    While you're at it, google barrel length and case length, and why not throw in caliber at the same time. Also cartridge volume and velocity, and bullet stability.

    Honestly it's hard to know where to start with these kinds of reports
     
  4. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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    Nook and FranchiseBlade like this.
  5. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Handguns are a far bigger problem in the USA.

    It isn't discussed as much because it would cause a huge cultural war in the USA.

    The rest of the world has these problems, yet they don't kill each other with firearms on the regular.

    It is almost like....... the problem is?...... Firearms?

    The reality is that the problem is that there are more guns than people in the USA and either we accept that there will be a high murder rate and violence rate in the USA or we ban or severely restrict firearms.

    Right now the USA isn't willing to do that, it believes all of the violence is worth it.... maybe it will feel different down the road.

    The internet has allowed extremists of all types to find other extremists and the consequences are not good.
     
  6. Nook

    Nook Member

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    I'm so sick of this immigrant or illegal immigrant narrative in the USA.

    The USA has been flooded with legal and illegal immigrants virtually since the founding of this country.

    The USA was full of illegal Italian, German and Irish immigrants 100 years ago.

    Many 3rd or 4th generation Mexicans came here illegally.

    Hell the USA is STILL flooded with illegal European and some Asian immigrants that have over stayed their visas by decades in some instances.

    I know an Irishman that came here as a teenager pre 9-11 on a visa to Chicago and now is married to an American, has children and works and owns a home...... oddly NO ONE ever asks him if he is illegal or questions his intent.

    It is just overtly racist in many situations.
     
  7. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    I doubt most people are getting shot up with .44 magnum's here.

    I get that the geometry, material and weight of a bullet matter, but there's no doubt that a rifle bullet will hit a target at a higher velocity than a hand gun bullet especially as the distance increases away from point blank, and that velocity is what makes the AR-15 so catastrophically deadly. And what you are seeing in terms of the gun shot wounds is real - they are worse wounds when the weapons are AR-15 vs handguns. Maybe that's because the people using handguns aren't using the bullets that maximize damage. Maybe the shots are from too far away - but regardless, that's what is happening in the field.

    That said, I can see why this would be annoying to a gun enthusiast (not saying that with any negative connotation) as they leave out a lot of information as you mentioned. To me the most surprising thing about the demonstration is they aren't talking about distance.
     
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  8. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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    this knowledge is widely available, and not just to the "gun enthusiast." If you are a news or investigative reporter, you have an obligation to inform yourself about the basic facts of the issues you're reporting on.

    Similarly, if you are a politician charged with crafting policy on an issue like firearms safety/control, you have an obligation to inform yourself about the basic, widely-available facts of that issue.
     
  9. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Hunter Biden's situation demonstrates why the laws need to be more specific and have more bite. There isn't even an agreement about whether Hunter lied when he answered the questions concerning whether he was addicted/using drugs. Even the "inference" part of the code isn't clear.

    The fact that someone like Hunter Biden could in 2018 legally and lawfully purchase a gun is horrifying and why the rules and laws need to be more clear and stricter.

    Guns laws are (or should be) for everyone but they need to pervasive, and clear.
     
  10. Amiga

    Amiga 10 years ago...
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    It just happens that all of these mass school shooters use the AR15.

    As far what's the issue? Decapitated elementary school kids aren't as much an issue as unlimited gun right. The basic position is that simple. Unlimited gun right > kids.
     
  11. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    Are they giving a comprehensive picture? No. And part of that is that most people aren't going to understand anything complex in a media segment.

    Is what they are saying is true? That these rifles are causing more damage to people than handguns? That's the first question. The second is whether that damage is because of the velocity the bullet hits the target and how it breaks up because of its greater speed?

    That might be the weak point. If medical examiners are saying so (and I haven't seen a study on it), then clearly there is truth it and likely indicates that people are getting shot at a distance where the velocity between a rifle and a gun makes a huge difference.

    So the verdict is that it's uncertain on that point whether this report is true or not because the data around damage done isn't presented it's just stated as a fact.
     
  12. Nook

    Nook Member

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    People are not prosecuted every day for lying about substance abuse on the firearms application.

    It is exceedingly rare in fact. There are a handful of cases but in almost all cases it was a charge tacked onto other charges after a major crime was committed.

    Here is some research on it:

    https://www.gao.gov/assets/gao-18-440.pdf


    Except it ISN'T clear that Biden broke the law, and the wording is vague and the definitions in the Code of Federal Regulation and the case law on "inferences" of substance abuse involve situations that do not apply to Biden on the face of the facts known.

    Indeed, the onus is on the prosecutor to prove that Biden KNOWINGLY lied on the application.

    This all illustrates one of the many problems with the flimsy gun control laws.


    I have no love for Hunter Biden, I don't think he should be allowed to own a firearm. I find it scary that he can legally own a firearm..... but this is all a teaching moment, it demonstrates what is obvious to anyone that has knowledge on the topic and is not biased - the restrictions and laws on guns are not working in the USA and people are dying as a result.

    I say this as a former Federal Prosecutor and as someone that has owned over two dozen firearms - the laws need to be made iron clad and there needs to be stronger restrictions on guns.
     
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  13. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    Constitution says well regulated militia.

    Fine, then if you want these guns, make people be part of a militia to be able to have those kinds of guns. They can form their own militias, but have to have rules and training - the militia has to be "well regulated." That way, these militias can keep an eye out on the lone gunmen since they will know if one of their members is acting wonky. And if someone wants one of these guns, they have to join a militia first, which adds a process to check out their mental sanity.
     
    DaDakota likes this.
  14. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Yes, it is almost as absurd as relying on a strict interpretation of a document written by only white men, that felt slavery was "A-OK" and did not know that 250 years later automatic weapons, tanks, television, cars and many many other things would exist.
     
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  15. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!

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    Which is why they made it amendable.

    "Well regulated Militia" are the key missing words, and for nearly 2 centuries the Surpreme court agreed, then changed their mind to where people could be armed to protect their own property - which is not at all what the 2A is about or was written for.

    1. It was meant to help support a small US national army with State militias against a foreign aggressor.
    2. It was meant for those militias to fight against our government if it ever got too oppressive.


    That's it.

    DD
     
  16. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    And it was written in a time when people didn't try to go into class rooms and use muskets to shoot up kids.

    In 1776, people didn't use Muskets to rob banks or commit crimes. They were used to wage war.
     
  17. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Scalia and the SCOTUS disagree.
     
  18. cheke64

    cheke64 Member

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    A reasonable bill that every human agrees with is on the table right now but the republicans in the house are going to turn it down.
     
  19. Amiga

    Amiga 10 years ago...
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    Well regulated what? For what? Clearly a lie. The first part of the 2A ON WHY the people should have the right to arms can simply be ignored, like everything else by entitled spoiled people when it doesn't fit what they want.
     
  20. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!

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    Written in 1789 as the bill of rights and ratified in 1792.

    And spot on about single shot bore rifles.........

    People can't own cannons, we can regulate guns but the GOP is paid off not to......thus people want to see them gone.

    DD
     
    Sweet Lou 4 2 likes this.

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