1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

[REASON] Woke Excess Causes Minority Voters To Flee the Democratic Party

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Os Trigonum, Mar 3, 2021.

  1. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2014
    Messages:
    72,950
    Likes Received:
    111,148
    "Woke Excess Causes Minority Voters To Flee the Democratic Party":

    https://reason.com/2021/03/03/woke-excess-democratic-party-trump-political-correctness/

    Woke Excess Causes Minority Voters To Flee the Democratic Party
    The cultural views of elite white liberals are not popular with many minorities.
    ROBBY SOAVE | 3.3.2021 12:24 PM

    [​IMG]
    (Paul Hennessy/ZUMA Press/Newscom)

    While the Democratic Party pulled off a complete (albeit narrow) victory over Donald Trump and the Republican Party in 2020, they lost ground with nonwhite voters—despite significantly raising the salience of racial justice issues during the campaign.

    According to progressive pollster David Shor, it's time to face the facts: The cultural views of very highly-educated, very left-leaning white people are toxic for many nonwhite voters who would otherwise support the Democratic Party.

    "I don't think a lot of people expected Donald Trump's GOP to have a much more diverse support base than Mitt Romney's did in 2012," Shor told New York magazine in a recent interview. "But that's what happened."

    Shor pointed to two specific associations—socialism and the "defund the police" movement—that appear to have tarnished the Democratic Party in the eyes of minority voters. The former is an unsurprising finding, and something I've written on previously: Socialism is generally not popular with Hispanic voters, who associate it with the kind of political oppression experienced by people in Venezuela and Cuba.

    But the latter is also noteworthy, given that "defund the police" is a mantra recited by progressive activists who purport to represent the wishes of racial minorities. These activists claim, for instance, that the role of police in society is to defend or legitimize America's white supremacist culture. In other words, activists want to defund the police because they think doing so is a necessary component of antiracist organizing.

    The trouble is that many racial minorities don't actually share that view.

    "We raised the salience of an ideologically charged issue that millions of nonwhite voters disagreed with us on," said Shor. "And then, as a result, these conservative Hispanic voters who'd been voting for us despite their ideological inclinations started voting more like conservative whites."

    Importantly, this holds true for the highly specific way that elite white liberals talk about race in general. Shor again:
    It seems fairly clear, based on Shor's polling, that Ivy League–educated white liberals' messaging on an assortment of issues falling under a category I have termed "woke excess" ended up driving minority voters into the arms of Trump. This wasn't enough to give Trump a second term, but it probably helped the Republicans dramatically improve their position in the House of Representatives.

    Woke excess goes by many names, including "political correctness run amok," which I previously claimed was a non-trivial explanation for Trump's surprise win in 2016. (It also drives "cancel culture," which is currently the thing that Republicans seem most interested in symbolically fighting.) Several smart thinkers, including McGill University's Jacob Levy, disagreed with my argument that the backlash against political correctness was significant; I was "mapping my list of excesses onto the voting behavior of 80,000 very-low-information voters in three states," according to Levy.

    Four years later, the thesis that highly educated white liberals are sabotaging the Democratic Party and inadvertently helping Trump seems, if anything, better supported than it was previously: Woke excess doesn't just turn off non-college whites, but it also prompts some Hispanic and black voters to defect from the Democratic coalition.
    more at the link

     
    Astrodome likes this.
  2. ROXTXIA

    ROXTXIA Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2000
    Messages:
    20,068
    Likes Received:
    11,768
    There is a lot of truth to this. The woke culture is taking it off the ledge. Defund the police was a slogan that helped Trump.

    Our own worst enemies sometimes.
     
    rockbox, Andre0087 and Astrodome like this.
  3. adoo

    adoo Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2003
    Messages:
    9,624
    Likes Received:
    6,142
    recent actions by GOP lawmakers, post the firing of the inept trust-fund baby from Queens, say the opposite is true.

    that's why GOP lawmakers have stepped up their voter suppressions efforts, in Ga, Pa, Az, Mi, etc.
     
    London'sBurning likes this.
  4. Amiga

    Amiga 10 years ago...
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2008
    Messages:
    21,936
    Likes Received:
    18,690
    OP, its communism, not socialism that scared the sh*t out of some Asian and Cubans. You might want to give two thoughts about why it's about communism for these communities.
     
    dachuda86 likes this.
  5. dachuda86

    dachuda86 Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2008
    Messages:
    16,308
    Likes Received:
    3,580
    This.
     
  6. adoo

    adoo Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2003
    Messages:
    9,624
    Likes Received:
    6,142
    jiggyfly likes this.
  7. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    47,822
    Likes Received:
    36,716
    There isn't a single progressive politician in the US that is elected from the Democrat party that is socialist.

    That is another issue with discourse in this country. Labels. Wanting public healthcare isn't socialist. Socialist is labor ownership of capital. Communsim is state ownership of capital and social democracy is a mixed free market economy that includes government programs that incentivizes the well being of the common citizen. No one is stating that the government should own Ford Motor Company.
     
    VooDooPope and Nook like this.
  8. ROXTXIA

    ROXTXIA Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2000
    Messages:
    20,068
    Likes Received:
    11,768
    Not socialist, sure, but the Democrats are awful at messaging, awful, and when you allow the other side to grab the narrative, even though the lies are obvious, well......."defund the police" was pretty stupid. Yeah, take away the police department budget. Oh, wait! Assaults, murders, robberies, hell, even traffic control...I guess we need the cops.
     
    Andre0087 likes this.
  9. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    47,822
    Likes Received:
    36,716
    You also ha f to understand that conservative America has been brainwashed to label any finding of government programs that disproportionately help the middle class and poor as socialist. Blame their bubbles media more than the wording of democrats.

    The GOP have effectly turned "public healthcare" into "that's Stalinism". And they did it with or without democrat incompetence. They did it through creating dopimine addicted media culture wars content on their am waves and cable news networks.
     
    London'sBurning and Nook like this.
  10. Nook

    Nook Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    54,310
    Likes Received:
    113,146
    Do you know how this article was written by an out of touch white male? It doesn't differentiate between minorities at all.... it just uses the term "minorities"..... there are more differences within minority groups than there are between whites and any selected minority group.

    The views of black voters vary depending on their age, income, gender and where they live.... just like every other group. There are even more variables within the "Latino" community. The article really isn't very well written.

    While I do believe that extremist liberals can go to far with "cancel culture", I also believe that in general the Democratic party is more receptive to most minority groups. The Democrats do need to improve their touch with Asian Americans (again a diverse and large group) and the Democrats need to focus more on economic strategies.

    The reality is that when you cater to large groups of minority voters, you are ruffle the feathers of some within other minority groups that are also under your tent. It is a very hard line to walk though, ask Trump who attempted to keep main stream Republican support and also get support from bigots, conspiracy theory groups and other minority voter groups.

    The Democratic party has a fracture right now between the "Clinton/Obama" Democrats and the progressive and more radical wing of the party. At some point there will be a show down between those groups and one will win. I suspect the progressives will.

    Also, as far as "Latinos" are concerned, they have drifted right before, and the longer there is a well established Latino community over the years, the more you will see vote Republican, it is how it works.
     
  11. Nook

    Nook Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    54,310
    Likes Received:
    113,146
    What has happened is that the pandemic has shown that at certain times there needs to be a strong federal government response, as there has been historically. It has been so long since we had one that the country as a whole is suffering. It can be infrastructure, prison reform, welfare reform, housing reform. These are all issues that need to be addressed at the federal level and in the past... when important issues have emerged, strong federal government advocates like Lincoln, both Roosevelt's have emerged.
     
    VooDooPope and fchowd0311 like this.
  12. adoo

    adoo Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2003
    Messages:
    9,624
    Likes Received:
    6,142
    true that

    http://www.npr.org/2016/05/24/479192873


    Asian Americans---self-reliant, hard working, strong on family value, value education and fiscally conservative---would seem to be a natural for the GOP party.

    When Reagan was President, w the immigration amnesty laws in effect, a majority of Asian Americans voted for GOP candidates. In 1992, less than 1/3 of Asian-Americans voted for the Democratic Presidential candidate, Bil Clinton.

    in terms of party identification, since 1992, no other group has shifted so dramatically to vote against the GOP. According to a recent study by UC Riverside, exclusionary / xenophobic / anti-immigrant rhetoric by GOP candidates seems to be driving this political shift.

    More than 40 % of Asian-American voters surveyed said they would oppose a candidate — whom they otherwise agreed with on most issues —if he/she had anti-immigrant views.

    This was the reason that, in 2012, > 70% of the Asian-American voted to reject the anti-immigrant Presidential candidate, Romney. even worst for Trump in 2016/2020.

    One can infer that, for the most part, AA voters are more issues oriented,
    they're too savvy/pragmatic to be duped by the current GOP that welcomes anti-immigrants like the QAnon lady and cancels the traditional conservative Liz Cheney​
     
    rocketsjudoka and Nook like this.
  13. Andre0087

    Andre0087 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2012
    Messages:
    8,343
    Likes Received:
    11,327
    It was so idiotic that they let some factions within the party hijack the message that was initially "Reform the Police."
     
  14. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2014
    Messages:
    72,950
    Likes Received:
    111,148
    good point, but can I now play my whataboutism get-out-of-jail-free card??

    [​IMG]

    seems to me the same can be said for (or WHATABOUT) posters who generalize about all 74 million "Trump voters" (or all "Republicans") being "white nationalists" or "white supremacists." As you suggest, there are similarly more differences within Republicans than between whites and specific minority groups.

    That and the fact that somewhere between 8 to 12 percent of black voters cast their votes for Trump (https://www.vox.com/2020/11/4/21537966/trump-black-voters-exit-polls ).

    But of course, that is precisely the topic of this piece, admittedly written by an out of touch white male.
     
    Nook likes this.
  15. Nook

    Nook Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    54,310
    Likes Received:
    113,146
    I don't know anyone that claims that everyone that votes for or supports Trump is a terrible racist. What I have heard is people asking how someone can support Trump when he is a bigot and supported by white nationalists and white supremacists. Those are fair questions I believe. At the end of the day, people that support Donald Trump know that he is supported by bigots, conspiracy theory extremists and the such.

    As for the author, yes, he is an out of touch white male that lives with his "wife Carrie and their two Yorkie terriers Oliver and Caesar in Washington D.C." .... I say that as a white male, it is obvious that he either does not understand the demographics or has chosen to ignore them.... take your pick.

    [​IMG]

    I didn't even know the author, but I had a really good idea what to expect based on the complete lack of depth and understanding of the topic. I suspected he was a libertarian (or claims he is one).

    [​IMG]

    He uses all the buzz words to grift and sell books and garner attention.

    [​IMG]

    When he isn't trying to grift..... he finds time to post many pictures of himself
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Having said all of that.... I have read some of what he has written, while I do not agree with all of it.... some of it is well done, and well reasoned and well researched. It is clear that he is fluent on some topics. Perhaps he just went outside his lane on the article you posted.
     
    jiggyfly likes this.
  16. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2014
    Messages:
    72,950
    Likes Received:
    111,148
    fair enough. although I took much of what he wrote to be simply an echo of David Shor's interview with New York magazine
     
  17. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2010
    Messages:
    24,033
    Likes Received:
    19,948
    The Title really should be "Right Wing Propaganda Has Been Successful at Convincing Conservative Latinos that Democrats are a Caricature of Woke Cancel Culture That They Really Aren't"

    One of the biggest contributors actually is the influx of right wing investment in Spanish language radio in the south especially in Florida. This is one of the most important unreported stories of the 2020 election. The right is doubling down on radio while the left is really moving away from the medium, and that really leaves wide open the reach that Spanish speaking AM radio has.

    When you watch FoxNews, Right Wing Facebook viral messages, or any right wing propaganda network, the consistency in the messaging is astounding. It's ALL about doubling down on culture wars. Everything is about Cancel Culture, and painting a caricature of how Republicans want their consumers to view Democrats as Cancel Culture Warriors... when in reality... Nobody on the left gives a rats ass about Mr. Potato Head... but every Right Wing Consumer believes you do regardless if that's the truth or not.

    Propaganda and continual lies ultimately work.
     
    VooDooPope, jiggyfly and fchowd0311 like this.
  18. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2002
    Messages:
    56,377
    Likes Received:
    48,317
    Thanks for this important warning Os -- I contacted moderate democrat headquarters and was shocked to hear them say that they were unaware of this critical problem. I told them in no uncertain terms that it is time for woke culture to take a nap.
     
  19. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2014
    Messages:
    72,950
    Likes Received:
    111,148
    you're alright kid.gif
     
    B-Bob and Nook like this.
  20. Nook

    Nook Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    54,310
    Likes Received:
    113,146
    He did, he just didn't do much with it.

    He did write a very thoughtful and interesting piece on toxic male masculinity though.
     
    FranchiseBlade likes this.

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now