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Really Virginia?

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by twhy77, Dec 18, 2009.

  1. twhy77

    twhy77 Contributing Member

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    This is sickening.

    http://hotair.com/archives/2009/12/18/video-mother-kills-newborn-cant-be-charged-with-crime/

    This may be the worst story of the year, at least in reference to domestic policy and crime. How bad is it? When Matt of Creative Minority Report tipped me to it this morning, I had to track it down to make sure it was on the level. A woman in Campbell County, Virginia smothered her newborn infant, and police are powerless to do anything about it:


    The caller said a woman in her early 20s was in labor. When deputies arrived, they discovered the baby had actually been born around 1:00a.m., about ten hours earlier. Investigators say the baby was already dead when deputies got there.

    Investigators tell WSLS the baby’s airway was still blocked. They say the baby was under bedding and had been suffocated by her mother. Investigators say because the mother and baby were still connected by the umbilical cord and placenta, state law does not consider the baby to be a separate life. Therefore, the mother cannot be charged.

    “In the state of Virginia as long as the umbilical cord is attached and the placenta is still in the mother, if the baby comes out alive the mother can do whatever she wants to with that baby to kill it.“, says Investigator Tracy Emerson. “She could shoot the baby, stab the baby. As long as it’s still attached to her in some form by umbilical cord or something it’s no crime in the state of Virginia.“

    Law enforcement officials have repeatedly attempted to get the law changed, asking state legislators to do something about the gap in protection for newborns. Why have Virginia legislators failed to act? They’re afraid of running afoul of the abortion industry:

    The Campbell County Sheriff’s Office and Commonwealth’s Attorney’s office worked unsuccessfully to get the law changed after another baby died in the county in a similar case. Emerson says they asked two delegates and one state senator to take the issue up in the General Assembly. He says the three lawmakers refused because they felt the issue was too close to the abortion issue.

    Er, what? I’m not aware of fourth-trimester abortions being legal anywhere in the US. In fact, I doubt that third-trimester abortions are legal in Virginia, either. Ironically, if the baby had been killed by someone else in an assault on the mother before its birth, that person would have been charged with murder, which sets up a really interesting double standard. Are legislators in Virginia so afraid of the abortion industry that they can’t take steps to protect full-term babies after their birth? Sounds like Virginians need a new class of lawmakers.

    Update: Caleb Howe Tweets that one state legislator is now on the case:

    State Senator Steve Newman announced today that the Division of Legislative Services has begun drafting legislation to ensure that a life cannot be legally taken after a child is born not withstanding its connection to the umbilical cord.

    The bill will amend Section 18.2 of the Code of Virginia which is the criminal code. Newman stated, “It is difficult to believe that the current Code could have such a flaw that would allow anyone to take the life of a born child. While I will not comment at this time on the case in Campbell County, it is abundantly clear that Virginians will demand a legislative cure to this loophole. I have consulted with the Attorney General Elect, Ken Cuccinelli; Campbell County Commonwealth Attorney, Neil Vener; Campbell County Sheriff Terry Gaddy and the investigator in the case, Tracy Emerson. All have indicated their full support for this legislation.

    We should keep an eye on this to make sure it gets signed into law.
     
  2. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

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    Woman's right to choose!

    I mean what can you say? The baby wasn't independent of the mother yet so it wasn't a life.

    Next story.
     
  3. juicystream

    juicystream Contributing Member

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    Could this not be charged as an illegal abortion? :confused:
     
  4. basso

    basso Contributing Member
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    "Really, NOW" would have been a more appropriate thread title.
     
  5. glynch

    glynch Contributing Member

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    This is definitely the greatest moral wrong of our or any other time. The mother should be executed asap to keep our country pure.
     
  6. twhy77

    twhy77 Contributing Member

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    Is this sarcasm?
     
  7. bigdaddy

    bigdaddy Super Trucker
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    That is taking a womans right to choose to a whole different level!
     
  8. Nook

    Nook Member

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    This has nothing to do with abortion rights, and do not attempt to divert the issue by pointing out an example that is a completely different issue.

    I tell you what, when the anti-choice people agree to take and completely raise all children that would be aborted, then we can consider further restrictions on abortion.
     
  9. brooksstephens

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    I live in Campbell County, VA... this isn't he first time this has happened here. SO sickening
     
  10. Shovel Face

    Shovel Face Member

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    And in the meantime we will just kill them on the spot.
     
  11. TreeRollins

    TreeRollins Contributing Member

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    You think they would get rid of this loophole after the first time.
     
  12. juicystream

    juicystream Contributing Member

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    Closing loopholes is like an act of Congress, it takes forever. Oh, wait...

    State governments are just as bad as the Federal level.
     
  13. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

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    How can it have nothing to do with abortion rights when the only way the woman is shielded from prosecution is by the laws regulating abortion? From the way this story has it, the law thinks she executed an extra-corporal, post-delivery abortion. It's got to have something to do with abortion rights. :confused:
     
  14. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

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    Obviously it is sarcasm. What's disturbing is that his use of sarcasm regarding this subject seems to indicate he has no problem, or at least is not inclined to care all that much, about the incident that occurred in this story. That is shocking to me.
     
  15. Dave_78

    Dave_78 Member

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    Put me in the group that has no emotional objection to this. I'm not saying that something should not be done to fix the loophole I'm just not capable of manufacturing fake outrage over it.
     
  16. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

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    I would think a wise pro-choice movement would actively want to close this loophole. Stories like this fuzz the lines between abortion and murder. If I were pro-choice, I would want to make a line at birth to be as bright and clear as possible, so no one follows a slippery slope from condemning infanticide to condemning abortion. Unless of course, they hope to slip the other way and justify infanticide with abortion.

    No need for fake outrage. If you have some real outrage, there's no harm in expressing it here.
     
  17. rudan

    rudan Member

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    So I guess anyone up to age 18 could get killed by their mother and it would be alright? Later term abortions :rolleyes:
     
  18. SamFisher

    SamFisher Virtuous
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    Not really. You could overrule Roe v. Wade tomorrow and I don't think it would have any impact at all on this legal definition which is between born and unborn for the purposes of a criminal statute.
     
  19. thadeus

    thadeus Contributing Member

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    So, Virginia should change its laws to prevent this sort of thing from occurring. Easy enough.

    But I'd be interested to see some substantial evidence that the reason this law hasn't been changed has something to do with the so-called 'abortion industry' - there is no evidence in this opinion piece from a right-wing blog. The implication is that the state senators won't change the law due to some lobbying or something from the so-called 'abortion industry'.

    If this really is the case (and again, the source for this information is dubious at best), then it has more to do with some lily-livered state legislators being afraid of getting involved in such a highly-politicized issue - highly-politicized by the exact sort of rhetoric that this article is using.

    If you're not part of the solution...
     
  20. B-Bob

    B-Bob my celli weighs a ton
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    [​IMG]
     

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