[Reality Check]The State of the Franchise

And the Mavs are going to hurt for that, as they basically have no young talent.

 

They have that French point guard who's going to be a stud.

 

No, you can't say every western team is playoff fodder. Mavs were eliminated in '07, '08, and '10. This Mavs team is a far cry from the Nash/Finley/Dirk daysin the early 2000's, when they would cruise to the 2nd round. Cuban destroyed it. Other teams like the Suns, Lakers, Spurs, and Jazz make regular 2nd round appearances.

The Finals appearance was their last hurrah, before their annual 1st round playoff exits to the other western teams. They have lost in the first round to more than the Warriors. It was almost 4 straight seasons of 1st round exits with losses to the Warriors, Hornets, and Spurs.

Cuban is wasted Dirk's talent when he broke up the big 3 to save money and got vets with a lower salary(but are still over priced). Maybe they would have had a ring, if he kept the big 3, and got a better supporting cast and a coach not named Nelly or Johnson. Now the Mavericks have had almost 4 straight seasons of 1st round exits.

Rockets can't follow Cuban's model, because they don't have a big 3 to break up in the first place.

 

This is what some of us have been saying for awhile.

 

I'm not knee jerking. If I was I'd be like..OMG OMG TRADE SHANE TRADE YAO TANK TANK TANK...but the team has been this way for a long time now. My hopes for this team has just gone lower and lower ever since the Ariza trade.

Yao's career is running out. He's not a Rick Smits. He's not any average star center.

He's Chinese and he is the best center in the league. (arguably).

Hes Chinese

Hes Chinese

oh did I mention hes Chinese?

And he's good.

So Les will never ever trade him.




see, Yao needs great players around him to make noise.

Ok, lets put my argument this way.

Say, you are, um, the GM of the Raptors, B. Colangelo.

Ok, you saw how Chris Bosh left?

First, they drafted in 04, Rafael Arajao with a top 8 pick.

Second, they drafted Andrea Bargnani with the top pick of the 06 draft.

Those 2 mistakes alone, lead to Bosh's departure.

You couldn't possibly tell me Bosh would still have bolted for Miami if he had Andre Iguodala and Brandon Roy on his team.

Those 2 horrible draft picks meant, despite them being a playoff team, there is no hope at the end of the tunnel.

One of the key reasons was because Bosh had no supporting superstar. Sure, Bosh could be MVP, but what happens when he is in his prime at age 28? Who are his teammates going to be? Jose Calderon and Andrea Bargnani? Is that gonna take them to anything past the 1st round? And they cannot improve because there is no way to gain new substantial talent because there is no capspace and draft picks in the 20's aren't gonna help much.

They needed players with similar age to Bosh developing alongside him.

just look at the OKC Thunder.

If instead of drafting Russell Westbrook, they went and traded that pick for Vince Carter from the Nets.

"OH WOA, LOOK AT THIS TEAM..STRONG STRONG STRONG."

but they aren't going to get a title with that team.

And 5 years later.

Durant is 27 and in his prime.

Vince Carter is now retired.

Who's gonna be his running mate?

They wouldn't have gotten any good draft picks, their salary is now deep in lux tax with Jason Kaponos and Drew Goodens trying to win a title as soon as possible.

Hes gonna bolt OKC. Just like Bosh.

See what we got was Shane, not Vince. To be honest it doesnt matter if its Vince or Shane that we got, its the fact that it was a extremely short sighted move.

Let me put another spin on this.

You are once again B. Colangelo.

Its the year 2010. Chris Bosh just bolted your team and now your team got heaps of capspace and tanking is in full steam.

You get the top pick of the 2011 draft.

You select, Kalin Lucas from Michigan State (or whoever, Kyrie Irving if you like)

If he turns out, great, you got a franchise player.

If he doesn't, who cares, now it just means you get another poke in the 2012 draft with yet another top 3 pick.

But Morey?

He gets a top 8 pick, unexpected, from injuries, Tim Duncan '97 style.

He uses that 8th pick and gets Rudy Gay.

Rudy Gay turns into the star he is today? Great, your team is going to the Finals very soon.

He turns into a complete bust? Sorry, no second chance this time. Your team is now fully recovered from injuries and your pick is now in the late 20's.

See, a bust is what the top 8 pick turned into. Shane Battier is now a scrub. If I wanted a Shane Battier I'd just go out and sign Matt Barnes for 2 million a year from Free Agency.

See what I mean by Yao's career is being ruined? He's too loyal to leave Houston, and Les won't trade him, and the team is going nowhere great.

Peace.[/QUOTE]


Simply the best argument I have EVER seen on THIS forum.

Speaking the reality seems very difficult here.

 

I'm not knee jerking. If I was I'd be like..OMG OMG TRADE SHANE TRADE YAO TANK TANK TANK...but the team has been this way for a long time now. My hopes for this team has just gone lower and lower ever since the Ariza trade.

Yao's career is running out. He's not a Rick Smits. He's not any average star center.

He's Chinese and he is the best center in the league. (arguably).

Hes Chinese

Hes Chinese

oh did I mention hes Chinese?

And he's good.

So Les will never ever trade him.




see, Yao needs great players around him to make noise.

Ok, lets put my argument this way.

Say, you are, um, the GM of the Raptors, B. Colangelo.

Ok, you saw how Chris Bosh left?

First, they drafted in 04, Rafael Arajao with a top 8 pick.

Second, they drafted Andrea Bargnani with the top pick of the 06 draft.

Those 2 mistakes alone, lead to Bosh's departure.

You couldn't possibly tell me Bosh would still have bolted for Miami if he had Andre Iguodala and Brandon Roy on his team.

Those 2 horrible draft picks meant, despite them being a playoff team, there is no hope at the end of the tunnel.

One of the key reasons was because Bosh had no supporting superstar. Sure, Bosh could be MVP, but what happens when he is in his prime at age 28? Who are his teammates going to be? Jose Calderon and Andrea Bargnani? Is that gonna take them to anything past the 1st round? And they cannot improve because there is no way to gain new substantial talent because there is no capspace and draft picks in the 20's aren't gonna help much.

They needed players with similar age to Bosh developing alongside him.

just look at the OKC Thunder.

If instead of drafting Russell Westbrook, they went and traded that pick for Vince Carter from the Nets.

"OH WOA, LOOK AT THIS TEAM..STRONG STRONG STRONG."

but they aren't going to get a title with that team.

And 5 years later.

Durant is 27 and in his prime.

Vince Carter is now retired.

Who's gonna be his running mate?

They wouldn't have gotten any good draft picks, their salary is now deep in lux tax with Jason Kaponos and Drew Goodens trying to win a title as soon as possible.

Hes gonna bolt OKC. Just like Bosh.

See what we got was Shane, not Vince. To be honest it doesnt matter if its Vince or Shane that we got, its the fact that it was a extremely short sighted move.

Let me put another spin on this.

You are once again B. Colangelo.

Its the year 2010. Chris Bosh just bolted your team and now your team got heaps of capspace and tanking is in full steam.

You get the top pick of the 2011 draft.

You select, Kalin Lucas from Michigan State (or whoever, Kyrie Irving if you like)

If he turns out, great, you got a franchise player.

If he doesn't, who cares, now it just means you get another poke in the 2012 draft with yet another top 3 pick.

But Morey?

He gets a top 8 pick, unexpected, from injuries, Tim Duncan '97 style.

He uses that 8th pick and gets Rudy Gay.

Rudy Gay turns into the star he is today? Great, your team is going to the Finals very soon.

He turns into a complete bust? Sorry, no second chance this time. Your team is now fully recovered from injuries and your pick is now in the late 20's.

See, a bust is what the top 8 pick turned into. Shane Battier is now a scrub. If I wanted a Shane Battier I'd just go out and sign Matt Barnes for 2 million a year from Free Agency.

See what I mean by Yao's career is being ruined? He's too loyal to leave Houston, and Les won't trade him, and the team is going nowhere great.

Peace.[/QUOTE]


I can't believe we're talking about what is ruining Yao's career and you write all of that and never once mention his injuries.

I still can't take you seriously after that.

 

Sorry for the repost, had to fix the quote...

I can't believe we're talking about what is ruining Yao's career and you write all of that and never once mention his injuries.

I still can't take you seriously after that.

 

Aside from the fact that your post is frankly unreadable, I would observe that Yao Ming in 2006 HAD a great player next to him, and whom frankly was the leader of the team.
We HAD two great players in 2006, our problem pretty much was everywhere else with a supporting cast that was crap. We got pretty much the perfect role player, and hoped to win a title around Yao and T-Mac. It didn't work out ( I would argue we had somewhat bad luck as we faced the one team which never uses anyone good on the perimeter, thus making Battier's excellent perimeter defense not quite as useful), but it was frankly something I would do again.

 

Even if the Rockets end up sucking all year, as long as the Knicks miss the playoffs, the Rockets will have TWO shots at winning a top-3 pick in the lottery. If the Knicks get #2 or #3 in the lottery, the Rockets can opt to swap picks (even if the Rockets were slated to pick, say, #7).

Also, for what it's worth (this is TOTAL "silver lining" talk here, so don't read anything into it), the worse the Rockets' record in the early part of this year, the more intriguing Houston's OWN 2011 first round pick (or the higher of the Rockets' or Knicks' pick) will be to potential trade partners.

You're telling me that Denver isn't even a LITTLE bit more interested in a Rockets' trade package that involves a 2011 first rounder?

But, yeah. It sucks to be a Rockets fan today.

 

Stand Pat or drop the nuke those are the only two solutions

No true difference making players are available. Don't give me this crap about josh smith, iguodala, granger, and Joe Johnson, All really good players, but none would make a dent as far as title contender goes. People always bring up PPG but scoring isn't the problem.

We could risk the farm and rent Carmelo, but will he help our defense, and do you really think he wants to play in Houston (be honest with yourself)

This team needs a complete facelift, or stay the course with this bunch. I prefer to let the season play out (to the trade deadline at least). No realistic roster move can be made to solve our problems. There is no need to panic now and make a move that won't have a major impact. If we reach Feb and this team still looks to be mediocre, I say tear it down and let Yao walk, just not yet.

 

Interesting point of view. Though I may not agree with everything you said, I appreciate and respect your analysis. Good post.

 

Agree with the most you said, but things above:
Right now i can't even see us making a 5 win streak, 22 is ridiculous.

You also overvalue Hayes and Battier, no team needs them. Battier is declining on defense and has no offense, Hayes is undersized and doesn't help any contending team.

If we want to get good players via trades, we have to give up guys like Budinger, Scola, Brooks, Patterson, etc. Our future is looking bad if we keep staying a team full of role-players and without any star, hustle guy.

 

Signed, accept i don't think any team wants Hayes.