[Reaction] 3 baffling aspects of our moves at the deadline

If Morey couldn't package them for a superstar yesterday, how do you think he can do it later?

 

What's baffling is the negativity in this thread. DM did what he could and came out with 4 assets. He can use the 2 picks to trade up this summer or stockpile some more to use in a blockbuster trade we're looking for.

 

In my time of dying, want nobody to mourn
All I want for you to do is take my body home

 

I'm a bit weary of the fact that every move that gets made is ultimately REALLY about the next move. We've been hearing that for quite a while now.

 

People basing their entire argument around "this draft sucks" need to take a step back, nobody knows how it's going to pan out. Nobody.

 

I would not use the word "next". I would say "future" moves.

 

There were TWO real stars on the market this trade deadline. Anthony was only going to New York, there was no way to get him. New Jersey just had the better offer for Utah, who probably also took into consideration that they preferred to trade him to the East. Based on media reports, Morey went all out to get both of them, and kept harassing all the other GMs in the league.

When you are complaining that it is about the next move, that means you think we should have done better this time. What exactly do you think we could have done to get these only two real impact players on the market?

 

True. Did anyone ever think about Morey possibly trading the picks and maybe some players as a draft day deal? No, because people love to jump the gun.

 

Exactly!

To those people:

 

Again, only two "superstars" were on the market this time. I already explained why we had absolutely no shot at them.

Later/next time, the conditions could be different: Some star might be disgruntled in the East and the team only wants to trade him to the West, we might have picked high in the draft 2011 and might be the New Jersey Nets of the next trade deadline (e.g. we would have the equivalent of Favors at the trade deadline 2011, Orlando realizes that Howard will not re-sign, and we have the best package for him). We don't know now. But what I like is that Morey keeps the gun loaded, rather than emptying it now, for something that will only keep us stuck in mediocrity.

 

People who insult Morey's draft picks don't really get the NBA draft. It's not like every pick pans out, in fact, most picks don't. This was something I'd heard, but here's some data I stumbled on:



If you can't read the key, the lines represent, from top to bottom,
-played in 100 games
-averaged 16 mpg
-averaged 22 mpg
-started 50% of games
-started 85% of games
-all star
-all NBA

WHAT DOES THIS MEAN?

--Once you get out of the top 5, less than 50% of players ever become starters. Outside of the top 10, less than 20% become starters

--In fact, from the 22nd pick onwards, less than 10% of players ever become starters.

--In the second round, less than 5% of players become starters. Hell, less than 40% even stick in the NBA for a hundred games and less than 30 percent even average 16 MPG for their career


In this light, the argument that Morey has failed in the draft seems totally unwaranted, doesn't it? Picking only in the zone which is statistically a TOTAL crapshoot, morey has produced quality players in Brooks, Landry, and Buddinger. Llul apparently tears it up in europe, and ought to come over in the next couple years, so the jury is out on him.

Drafting at spots when less than 40 % of guys even stick on a roster for more than one season, that is pretty remarkable.

Now, there are plenty of fair criticisms of Morey's drafting--you could, for example, argue that he prefers statistically proven players over projects, and that this risk-aversion is the reason why we have so many undersized bigs and fail to take risks on getting true size. That would be a fair criticism, and we could have a good discussion about that.

Reflexively bashing, on the other hand, is not a discussion. It's not reasoned. It's pointless and it's the reason why I hardly post here anymore. Please, support your claims with warrants based off the context of the situation, or don't engage in the discussion at all.


Thanks to this random forum/the googles for the chart:
http://realcavsfans.com/showthread.php?35146-15-Year-NBA-Draft-Analysis

 

1. I'm not complaining we didn't get a star. My overarching complaint is that we've been "assembling assets" for quite some time that we've been led to believe have lots of value and easy contracts to swallow. I see no evidence of that.

2. My complaint is that everytime we're the bridesmaid. And again, I wasn't expecting Carmelo. Gerald Wallace got moved...to Portland...for Pryzbilla. Our heralded assets apparently couldn't match the value of Pryzbilla.

3. These were lateral moves AT BEST. We traded 2 starters for 2 bench players and 2 lottery protected draft picks. Again. 13 years...2 playoff series victories. Wake me up before you go go.

 

Brooks', Budinger's and Hill's value went down significantly during this season. Do you really want to blame Morey for that?

What good would it have done at this stage to get Gerald Wallace? He is one of the players I always wanted, but at this point, he would have occupied a lot of cap space, and would not have done anything to put us into contention. We need to gun for a real star, and until then, we need to maintain flexibility and stockpile "assets". If we had gotten Wallace and would have barely made the playoffs or just missed them, you would have been the first to complain about Morey having made moves that keep us stuck in mediocrity!

Yes, they were lateral moves. Nobody is denying that, Morey isn't either. In fact, I think it is obvious that these moves make us significantly worse in the short run. But they were still better than losing these two guys for nothing in the offseason. Do you disagree with that?

 

Lateral? Maybe.

Necessary? Definitely.

We dumped two expirings (one being a one-dimensional malcontent, the other being an aging role player) for two first rounders and two projects.

Not the greatest haul, but lateral? Nah.

 

1. Morey acquired Brooks, Budinger and Hill....those are on him, absolutely. They are part and parcel of the "heralded assets" he acquired that he got so much praise for bringing in. When the manager brings in pieces that don't work, he stands accountable.

2. I like everything else you said. But if we're gonna gut the team, let's freaking gut it. Let's trade Scola. If we don't want to bring in a Wallace because we're afraid he'll keep us mediocre, then let's trade Martin! Let's blow it up and rebuild. I've been saying that for a while. I don't think the "wait and see" approach is working or will work.

 

it was lateral. these are bench players. one of them rarely sees the court and is a COMPLETE project.

the first rounders sounded great before i knew that they really meant we'll have Orlando's pick and the earliest we get Memphis' lottery-protected pick is 2013.

 

What would you rather have him do?

Resign a God awful Aaron Brooks for dumb money or lose him for NOTHING?

Resign a 33 year old Battier on a team that is closer to winning the lotto than Winning a playoff series?

at least we got something to hope for (Thabeet) and picks.

 

Whom would you have picked instead of Brooks and Budinger? Based on the draft position we had, I am curious to hear whom you would have gotten that would have performed a lot better than they have.

As to Hill, he was not the main piece of the combination of deals to get rid of T-Mac, Kevin Martin and the picks were. I think we knew Hill was a problematic project, we are just trying to make the best of it until we can trade him somehow. I can already foresee you blaming Thabeet's terrible performance in the future (that is my expectation) on Morey, but it's the same situation, really.

I think we will trade Scola at some point, maybe at the draft, or at the next trade deadline. I love Scola, but if you really analyze the situation, it made sense to keep him as long as we felt that we had a shot to contend. After Yao went down for good, the situation totally changed. We are now in full rebuilding mode, and if it makes you happy, Morey agrees, as his last two moves have shown.

 

Fair enough, but when you are stuck (Brooks and Battier were going to walk, and we weren't going to get any better with them in tow), sometimes you gotta take a step back or sideways to move forward eventually.

I'm not as impatient/fed up with the "stock piling assets" routine as you are, though, when Yao went down this year, I knew we were in for another 2-3 years of shuffling the deck (i.e. waiting on a superstar to become attainable) before we could realistically move forward. We really haven't been "stockpiling" as long as you seem to think. Now that we know Yao is pretty much done as a starting center in the NBA, the picture is becoming more clear about what we have to do moving forward. And it will only get clearer once Yao's contract situation is settled. If you're tired of this already, I feel really bad for you, because it's not even close to over yet.

 

I have no problem with him trading Aaron Brooks

I have no problem with him trading Shane Battier

but it didn't make us any better. and these weren't bold moves that gut us to rebuild. nor are they bold moves that make us instantly better. they're typical, safe, "think about the NEXT move" moves that we've seen for quite a while now.

I'm more concerned that this "collection of assets" doesn't appear to have much value on the open market. Because it's all we got.

Heard Craig Ackerman (sp?) on the radio this morning say that Thabeet might not really see any minutes at all with us this season. Really??? Because the Rox were still in the hunt for the 8th spot. That makes me want to vomit.