1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Re- drafting the 2020 class - knowing what we know

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Trackwell, Apr 23, 2021.

  1. Trackwell

    Trackwell Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2008
    Messages:
    847
    Likes Received:
    457
    Seasons almost up-

    It’s top 4 pick or bust -

    For how bad this season has been, I think this exercise will shed some optimism

    If we re-drafted the entire first round-
    Lamello goes 1

    Where does Tate and Martin go?

    I think they are both lottery picks..

    where would they fall ?

    Talk about incredible value!
     
    xiki, don grahamleone and BamBam like this.
  2. Clutch

    Clutch Administrator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 1999
    Messages:
    21,805
    Likes Received:
    23,372
    Jae'Sean Tate went undrafted in the 2018 Draft.

    Martin would likely be a first but too early to tell what kind of player he will be. Tremendous leaper and still very young.
     
  3. Trackwell

    Trackwell Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2008
    Messages:
    847
    Likes Received:
    457

    I see ...
    Clutch you don’t think Martin Junior would be a lottery pick?

    Doing another hypothetical, If Kevin Porter Junior was still in college/ Would he be a top five pick?
     
  4. BamBam

    BamBam Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2003
    Messages:
    8,778
    Likes Received:
    6,837
    1. Tate (if drafted 2020)
    2. KPJ (if drafted 2020)
    3. Martín
    4. Melo

    The numbers are clear....o_O

    .......
    .......
    .......
     
  5. Trackwell

    Trackwell Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2008
    Messages:
    847
    Likes Received:
    457
    Yeah I didn’t know he went undrafted in 2018- My apologies

    But even that being the case, I’m really just curious on what His value is - The new GM gets an A in my book For this year

    Porter , Tate , Martin and Wood have all Turned out to be great pick ups
     
    BamBam likes this.
  6. photojoe

    photojoe Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2013
    Messages:
    3,109
    Likes Received:
    3,116
    The one trade that our franchise could not afford to screw up, he screwed up.
    No matter how many other value guys he got, there is no way it can make up for that and get him anywhere close to an A
     
    csnerd84 and YOLO like this.
  7. Plowman

    Plowman Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 1999
    Messages:
    9,593
    Likes Received:
    8,131
    The two swaps on the back end, along with that last pick will likely change your mind.
    And that's worst case scenario.
     
  8. Plowman

    Plowman Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 1999
    Messages:
    9,593
    Likes Received:
    8,131
    Tate's obviously a steal...and Martin is a good pickup, but guys tend to look better on a crappy team like ours.

    I could see Tate going middle to late first.

    Martin would likely be end of the first/beginning of the second.

    KP Jr is definitely a top 5 pick, without the offcourt issues.
     
    Corrosion and Trackwell like this.
  9. luckyman76

    luckyman76 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2016
    Messages:
    1,191
    Likes Received:
    1,459
    To add to this our players are looking better because of opportunity and minutes. It's a blessing and a curse. To really tell if the impact is real you need to wait until about midway through next season with the same opportunity and see if those players are getting better or have peaked. I do think all are very promising but still big unknowns. The one real truth we know is that we need to quickly dump our older players and start evaluating a lot more young talent before we will ever get a team capable of competing in the current NBA. There is a reason why Morey tried out almost every player from the 2009 draft on this team. Rebuilds are ugly, uncertain, and necessary. Hopefully, we get lucky with our lottery picks and FA and trades produce the opportunities we need to start over.
     
  10. Trackwell

    Trackwell Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2008
    Messages:
    847
    Likes Received:
    457

    I love this
     
  11. Corrosion

    Corrosion Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    Messages:
    6,086
    Likes Received:
    5,924

    That's your opinion and in my book , your opinion is dead wrong.

    Controlling a teams draft for 7 consecutive years with ZERO protections is a big deal.

    Especially when you consider that team is old , expensive and each of their stars have 1 more year plus player options that may or may not be exercised and Durant is already a shell of his former self & Harden has a whole lotta miles on his body ..... and then there's Kyrie who's liable to run off the end of the flat earth into the abyss at any moment.

    It's very likely that Brooklyn is rebuilding in two years and .... the Rockets hold the keys to their draft assets thru 2027.

    They were never going to get a player of equal value to Harden who's at least a top 10 in the history of the league player.

    Taking back a Simmons type just led us back to the hamster wheel of an early playoff exit or a late lotto pick that doesn't move the needle. Fine if you aren't after championships .... not so much if you are.
     
    Plowman and Trackwell like this.
  12. napalm06

    napalm06 Fertitta-McNair School of Management
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2008
    Messages:
    22,490
    Likes Received:
    21,463
    Speaking of dead wrong, we are talking about As when the team is 15-46 with a historically bad differential and still losing front office staff. Picking a (thus far) hapless coach and making mistakes like Levert and Allen for Dipo and Exum is not A territory.

    I think people often forget there is a big range between A and F. But it aint A in this case. We can give him an A for scouting bargain pickups so far and an A for accumulating draft picks if we want to do it categorically. But for maximizing the value of the players received in the Harden trade, that is more of a D to me, and keeping the team competitive is an F. I understand that leads to a better draft pick, A for tanking. Can't have everything, being a GM is incredibly complicated. Not going to give out speculative As. I could go with C+ and a lot of runway to become an A in the next 5 years.
     
    ico4498 likes this.
  13. xiki

    xiki Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2002
    Messages:
    16,440
    Likes Received:
    1,976

    Clear as...mud.
     
    Trackwell and BamBam like this.
  14. ico4498

    ico4498 Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 1999
    Messages:
    3,188
    Likes Received:
    767
    Stone's estimated 10 year return for acquired assets: F
    it really won't matter how successful we are in 2030. folks will still wonder if the rebuild could have been bigger and faster had Stone done better.

    Stone's ability to speak without saying anything: A+
    evaluate me in a decade, not wholesale tanking ... classic doublespeak, dude has political ability.
     
    Trackwell likes this.
  15. Le$$

    Le$$ Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2016
    Messages:
    3,538
    Likes Received:
    2,787
    Actually Tate should of gone drafted, But he just undersized, too bulky to guard guards, not really what you call a Guard. So what is he? People passed hard on him, and i can see why. He not as good as people think he is on CF. Maybe a 10.5pg, 8 guy off the bench.

    He will keep in the league probably cause he has to work hard to. Martin is undersized. These football player types don't really translate to all good nba players, but they both are good enough to stick around because you can tell they put in the work., and they have skill as far as a improving a strong bench. They to me should not be starters on a championship team thou, but part of a good bench. imo
     
    Trackwell likes this.
  16. Doctor Robert

    Doctor Robert Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 1999
    Messages:
    3,195
    Likes Received:
    614
    Tate's playmaking raises his ceiling a little for me, but I agree... he's at such a disadvantage due to his body-type and tweener skills that I don't think he'll ever be a starter on a playoff team. Martin's athleticism is amazing, but I have less of a feeling about what his ceiling is. A freakishly good shotblocker for someone that is 6'-6" doesn't make a good defensive player.

    Just a comparison...
    Tate is 6'-4" tall, 6'-8" wingspan, and 230 lbs
    KJ Martin Jr is 6'-6" tall, 6'-7" wingspan, 215 pounds
    Harden is 6'-5" tall, 6'-11" wingspan, 220 lbs

    You'd like to think their ceilings would be something like Draymond Green, who bucks all the traditional stereotypes, but he's a once-in-a-generation defensive player, with an obviously superior wingspan.
    Draymond Green, 6'-6" tall, 7'-1" wingspan, 230 pounds

    I have to compare players because I don't know enough about basketball X's and O's. Maybe Tate could be a 7th man that plays Green's game.

    Tate and Martin are very squarely in the two-guard size range. They may do OK in the regular season, but I fear they'll get chewed up and be unplayable in a seven game series. When a great defensive team tightens the screws in the playoffs, both of those guys are going to have A LOT of their shots blocked. We already tried switching everything against the Lakers with the greatest wing in the league, and got slaughtered. Let's not try to reproduce that failure with Tate substituting for Harden.

    Of course, I counted both of them out before the season started, so... they're both playing better than I expected and I would love to be wrong. Maybe there is a certain combo that can produce in the playoffs.
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now