Like I said, admiration is one thing. I admire David Blaine and his feats in illusion. I admire the average rocket scientist and how they are able to process all of that math and be able to create and operate something as complicated as a rocket (among other things). I admired the dancing and singing of Michael Jackson. That's one thing. But the idolization, special treatment, willingness to overlook faults because of their status and in cases of people who contribute so little to society like entertainers (though it can be argued they have a giant impact due to how many people their art reaches) is what's an issue. I mean, we honor Ray Lewis because he was a great football player and American football is the most popular sport in this country. Why not give that same praise to the best fencer, the best person at pool, the best architect, etc... You get where I'm going. That's all I'm saying. LOL, after all that, we still basically agree.:grin:
What do you define as a hero? Superman? Who is a role model? I am not a fan of Ray Lewis. I don't know if he is a good guy or a shady guy. But role models aren't this award granted to people - it's freaking whatever people aspire to be. A crook can be a role model. A murdering pirate can be one too. In fact, more "heros" and "role models" in society aren't that. Question - why do your role models and heros have to be so squeaky clean? Whatever Ray Lewis has done, it is the past. You can judge him as you wish, but how can you tell other people how to judge him in the court of public opinion. I think...to be completely frank - that's quite ivory towerish of you rj. People are free to define who they want to worship - flawed or not. And if Ray Lewis inspires good - then so be it.
Well played and well argued. I agree somewhat. That still doesn't change the fact it's unfortunate people put entertainers (including major pro sports athletes) on such a pedestal.
A little before that was the Rae Carruth murder incident, and then the Ray Lewis incident so it was REALLY surrounded in controversy. Also Ray Lewis was NOT suspended by the NFL, and there was some outcries about that. If the NFL gave him even a little suspension like they did Michael Vick, Lewis might have been seen maybe MORE in a favorable light as having been reprimanded and paying his dues? I think its the people who DO know the difference who are contribute the LOUDEST boohooing and denigrations, the PETA people leading the charge. I do agree, for those who have pets but devour animal meats with no qualm, they probably shouldnt be as appalled when domestic animals are getting similar endings. (Though its like telling people to have the same level of attachment to their Air Jordans as they do to their Dr Scholls work shoes, just wont happen) And yeah Ray Lewis might be worse.
I'm not the type of person that idolizes sports figures, but if I did idolize a football player, it would be Ray Lewis. People make mistakes. They do stupid things. They get involved in situations they shouldn't be involved in. That doesn't mean they should be weighed down their entire life by it. He's done nothing but great things since that entire situation, and I'm not even talking about on the football field. He's earned my respect and admiration back, and if I had a son and he looked up to Ray Lewis and wanted to be just like him, I wouldn't have a problem with it.
I'm not justifying what Vick did, it's still wrong, but give me a f-ing break. What they do to those animals on factory farms is just as bad if not worse than dog fighting yet you (in general, not you Shroopy2) aren't gonna stop taking your fat ass to McDonald's five times a week, the store twice and out to eat 3-5 times a week. It's no different than people making value judgement on some people because they eat dogs and housecats. And how dare we do that, my favorite food is dog, I just ate Scooby Doo last week and he tasted twice as good as Lassie. RoooobyRoooobyRoooo!!!!:grin:
You are right there is no objective standard to what defines a "hero" or a "role model" and I am making a subjective argument that someone who was involved in a double murder and pleaded guilty to obstructing the investigation should not be. That Ray Lewis has done a lot of good things since then should be considered in the overall evaluation of him but I don't think that means that we just forget that part of his past. Again though this is subjective and whether it is ivory towerish or not I am perfectly fine with saying that even though most people are willing to forget Ray Lewis' past I don't think we should. That that is a popular opinion I personally find that troubling but my main critique of this situation is at culture overall than at Ray Lewis in particular. As you note the title of 'hero" and "role model" are ones that are granted by society. In this case I disagree and if that puts me in an ivory tower so be it.
Sure people make mistakes all the time but people don't often die because of those mistakes. As I have said before that I don't think Ray Lewis should be retried or banned from football. I wouldn't hamper his life in any way but we are talking about how much we should idolize him. I myself think obstructing justice in a double murder is something that shouldn't just be forgotten. And if your son came to you and said that he was with friends things got out hand and some people got killed but he wasn't going to, at least initially, come clean to the police what would you say to him?
Ray Lewis's Wikipedia page says it all: Personal life Lewis is a Christian, and his commitment to his faith was featured in a Sports Illustrated cover story in 2006. He has six children by four women.[9] His son, Ray Lewis III, has committed to the University of Miami for the 2013 season.
Reason number one not to pursue pro sports unless you have a deep seated/hearted passion for the game. Or fame in general.
He is an active father, Antonio Cromartie he is not. Check out his Football Life, his kids are his life (now). They followed him for a year, and his kids were right there with him the entire time. Criticize him for the murder all you want, but from what I've seen he is an excellent father.
Fair enough... I have a different opinion. I'd tell him that it would be best for him to come clean with the police. Like I said, Ray Lewis made a mistake. I'd hope my son didn't make the same mistake.
Look, I don't think any sports person should be a hero. But the fact is, kids look up to sports figures flawed or not. And that can do a lot of positive things. Lance Armstrong was a cheat. Yet look what he accomplished - how much money he raised, how many people he inspired to get in shape and to achieve. Fact is, he is a role model. Fact is, so is Ray Lewis. For better or worse. Now...I would argue that if criminal behavior or immoral behavior disqualifies someone has a role model or hero, then you have to strip that away from everyone. Mother Teresa refused to let people get medical treatment at times and let them died instead. There's a lot of things she did that resulted in unnecessary deaths - that today would have landed her in jail and rightfully so. You can take any role model and find a dark - and very often a side that isn't worthy of that title. You could talk about how MJ ignored the evils that Nike did and cheated on his wife. Perhaps the problem isn't that people worship flawed characters and over loop those flaws - it's that they worship them at all. But for the most part - we are talking about kids here ans the ones doing the looking up. And I think, there's no need to tear a guy down while he is doing good. Not for the person, but for those they are inspiring.
Wow, good thing Ray isn't worried about people's judgement. To be blind to where he is today based solely on pass events. While people criticize him he is (presumably) impacting young players and people around for the better.
