What did you mean when you said that people dog the Saints, but gloss over the Patriots? The implication was that it ws racially motivated, considering you were responding to a "If Ray Lewis was white...." post.
If it is someone you like. . . . they get a pass If it is someone you don't like. . . it is a crime against humanity. depending upon what we feel about the person or group of persons then . . . .we shape our opinions of their actions accordingly The ESPNs of the world slob the Patriot's knobs but will turn around and slam a Lance Armstrong or Sosa etc They are all 'cheaters' but Patriots get a pass because people 'love their story . . love Tom Brady . . Love the hoodie but They are all still 'cheaters'. . . Rocket River
I think ultimately it comes down to the obstruction of justice, though. What if Ray was just there, and still a bystander. And then he was accused of murder but ultimately acquitted. Should he still be thought of as "questionable" because he was "involved" in a double murder? I don't think so. Sometimes you simply are in the wrong place at the wrong time. I have a college friend who was the driver in a car accident that killed another college friend. he was driving too fast (though not ridiculously so), and not as safe as he otherwise could. I know it's not apples to apples, but if in the ensuing investigation he lied for a bit about how fast he was going or how much he was paying attention to the road, but ultimately came "clean", could he be considered a role model 10+ years later? I think so. What if we were just talking about a passenger in the car who "lied" briefly about how fast the driver was driving but ultimately came clean and "ratted out" his friend, the driver? Again, I know this isn't an apples to apples comparison, but just something that came to mind. I think ultimately it comes down to (1) the fact that he just drove off, potentially with murderers in the care, and (2) the obstruction of justice. I give him a very slight pass on these issues. On the first, there's no telling what he saw, knew or where his mind was at following the event. One would assume he witnessed a pretty serious fight and beating (and knifing) and then got in a car with the guys he saw do the deed, but that's just an assumption. On the second, I have no clue what obstruction of justice covers, what he actually obstructed, etc. Moreover, he ultimately changed his mind, took a deal to testify against his friends.... AND they still were acquitted. Does that mean they were innocent... not necessarily, but I don't know what it means.
If Ray Lewis was just a bystander and was acquitted I think that would be fine but the fact that he obstructed the investigation shows that wasn't the case. You pretty much provide the answer to why I don't think Lewis is a hero or a role model. As you note there are so many unknowns about the situation that he has never come clean about. The fact that he cut a deal and testified against his friends, who were acquitted, frankly to me shows that he possibly was much more involved that he let on. I agree that is speculative but even with what we know for sure was that he was involved in the situation to a degree that he admitted to criminal culpability. Given that two people are dead because of that I don't think that is something to just be dismissed when judging the character and legacy of a person.
If people actually cared, and for some, actually knew about the way much of their food is raised on factory farms they wouldn't have nearly been as outraged at Vick as they were. What's the difference between a cow, chicken, turkey or dog? They're all defenseless creatures when abused but oh I get it, none of the first three are raised as pets with rare exception. Ray Lewis, if guilty, committed a far worse act.
I've been a pretty big doubter of Ray Lewis, until I watched his "The Football Life" last week. <iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/M62iU4hWV_g" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> I also looked in to the charges of his murder, and it is inconclusive in my opinion if he had anything to do with it. Maybe his two buddies did? Who knows, but I can't hold a bad opinion of him for what he did if I don't know he did it. The other two dudes were acquitted too, so sounds to me like they screwed the pooch with the investigation. He did pay a settlement to the victim's family in 2004, which helped stave off a lawsuit which doesn't help his case. But you could also say that he paid them off just to put it behind him.
I can't get past the hero worship either. It doesn't seem right. Two people are dead and he was directly involved in the incident. I mean, the clothes he was wearing that night were never found. I don't need a guilty conviction to know something doesn't add up.
Here's Jason Whitlock's take on Ray Lewis' legacy. I will post my response to Whitlock at the bottom: http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/...-respect-aftermath-double-murder-trial-011113 [rquoter]Judge Lewis by aftermath of trial When it comes to Ray Lewis and the celebration/glorification of his illustrious, 17-season NFL career, the cliché “what’s done is done” applies. As his career comes to a close, perhaps this weekend when the Ravens take on Peyton Manning and the Broncos, football fans should not be ashamed of loving Ray Lewis. He’s earned our admiration and respect. That is not written to exonerate Lewis in the 2000 double-murder trial that nearly cost him his freedom, nor is it written to minimize the seriousness of the tragedy. It’s written to convey none of us is Perry Mason, none of us know what happened before, during or after Lewis, his friends and the victims stepped inside the limousine on that night. We can speculate. We can piece together clues. We can read into the fact Lewis reached financial settlements with the families of the deceased. We can express and feel deep sympathy for the deceased and their families. But we cannot know. What’s done is done. Our criminal justice system reached a plea agreement with Lewis to testify against the men the courts believed were responsible for the killings, and the courts charged Lewis with obstruction of justice. There were no convictions at the trial. I’m not granting Lewis forgiveness based on legal technicalities. I’m giving it to him based on common sense, life experience, an understanding of our criminal justice system and, most important, based on the way Lewis has conducted himself since the trial. Many of you cannot see yourselves making the decisions Lewis did on that fateful night. Why was he out partying with two “thugs”? One of Lewis’ friends charged with murder was also friends with Derrick Thomas, the Chiefs Hall of Fame linebacker. The friend, Joseph Sweeting, came to Kansas City every year to kick it at Derrick’s summer golf weekend. He was a little dude everyone called “Big Oomph.” I partied with him, and I’m a non-violent square. Unlike many of my sportswriting peers who can’t imagine themselves being in the same position as Ray Lewis, I can. When I was in college, a teammate and I stepped out of a car and some townies stopped their car and dropped several racial slurs on us, including the N-word. We were big, swollen, 21-year-old football players. We shouted for the townies to get out of their cars and fight. My teammate, unbeknownst to me, popped the trunk of his car and pulled out a semi-automatic weapon. Holy s**t! A simple fight just escalated into a war. My teammate was from a major city. As an 18-year-old, he’d been robbed and shot. He believed guns enhanced his safety. Lucky for me, the townies quickly drove off. I ran home. Had shots been fired, it’s likely I would’ve been viewed as an accessory to murder or attempted murder. I’m not a murderer. I’m an overeater. I’m a sportswriter. I’m a lap-dance lover, a craps shooter and an inappropriate joke teller. Again, I don’t know what happened with Lewis, his friends and the victims. But I’ve been young and dumb and friends with people in a different situation and a different mindset than me. The Lewis story is quite complex. The self-righteous people who know exactly what Lewis should’ve done on that night and the days and nights that followed sound naive and uninformed. That is not written to excuse. Lewis may have escaped incarceration, but, to me, it is clear he has not escaped the consequences. Lewis’ pain is evident. I’ve written previously that the people who play football’s most violent positions — defensive front seven and safeties, offensive line and running backs — are fueled by inner pain. You can’t summon the emotion to play middle linebacker with the passion Lewis exudes without a deep, deep well of pain to fuel it. Lewis has played the most violent position in sports at an incredible level for 17 years. The only other guy to do it for that long at that high of a level was Junior Seau. I think we know now that Junior was in a lot of pain. Lewis’ critics watch him play, watch him dance, watch him collect millions of dollars and conclude he’s a lucky man who got away with murder. I see a man who got away with nothing. I see a man fighting his demons, working through his emotional pain. I see a man who was humbled by and is tormented by an unspeakable tragedy, who is doing all he can to make sure his teammates, coaches, peers and others do not know his pain. I don’t judge Ray Lewis by the double-murder trial. The truth of that situation is cloudy. I judge Lewis by the way he has handled the aftermath. His pregame dance, his preachy leadership, his charitable work and his spirituality all ring authentic to my ears and eyes. I love him because he plays football like a man who has been to hell and back and has no intention of returning. I will not apologize for loving Ray Lewis.[/rquoter] I don't think Whitlock helps Ray Lewis much and IMO makes me have even less of an opinion of the legacy of Ray Lewis. As Whitlock notes the situation around the murders is hazy and that none of us except for Lewis himself knows what Lewis' involvement was. That is a defense in the eyes of the law, innocent until proven guilty, but not a defense in regard judging someone. That we don't know what exactly happened and that Lewis has admitted to obstructing the investigation tells me that he hasn't absolutely come clean about the situation and handled the aftermath. Taking Whitlock's own story about threatening townies with a gun if Whitlock's friend had shot those townies and Whitlock obstructed the investigation I would think it would be very justified to consider Whitlock as being an accessory to murder and not just some innocent bystander. As I said before I fully acknowledge that Ray Lewis has done a lot of good since I don't think that means we minimize the serious of the situation. I also fully believe that Ray Lewis is wrestling with emotional pain over the situation I would say though if he was in such emotional pain he shouldn't have obstructed the investigation in the first place or cut a plea bargain. He should've gone to trial to either clear his name or accept the consequences. I will add I don't blame Ray Lewis for cutting a deal to save himself from jail time but that hardly makes him a hero.
I don't have a dog in this fight... or, er... anyway, I don't think this statement on its own is logical. The fact that he obstructed the investigation only means he obstructed the investigation. It has no clear logical connection to what he did or did not do during the incident. it is completely possible that he was a bystander AND made the choice to complicate the investigation (perhaps out of loyalty to some of those involved.) Not commendable behavior in any case.
The celebrity worship in this country is a joke, especially given who we choose to celebrate. "Oh gee, you're really good at a kid's game, that's makes you a good person and I show bow before you because you have money, status and helped my favorite team win." Granted, I used to be as bad as anyone but yeah, that says it all. We need to celebrate the guy who landed the plane in the water in New York, 9/11 heroes, firefighters, etc... not just people who entertain us. It's not to say I don't admire their abilities. For example, I and no one on this planet has ever done the things Michael Jordan has on the basketball court and I give him proper respect but that doesn't make him a god like people treat him as.
Except again I am differentiating between criminal guilt and whether we should be celebrating the guy. I agree he isn't guilty of the murders and it is pure speculation on how much he was involved but given all of the uncertainty about it I don't think that that part of his history should just be overlooked.
I don't think there is anything wrong with celebrating sports heroes and if we just acknowledge that Ray Lewis is a great football player I have no problem with that. What got me about all the tributes regarding Ray Lewis was that so much of them were about how great of a person he was with barely a mention of his involvement in the double murder. I believe in redemption (not in the Christian sense) and I don't know Ray Lewis personally but I think that part of his history shouldn't be forgotten.
