I would rather not be remembered because I'm a team player then be remembered as someone who had a high-profile affair, accused of rape and is getting ripped by everyone on the planet for being selfish. If his career "amounts to nothing" because he isn't selfish and he's a team player, then that tells you all you need to know about the state of the NBA.
I think just about everyone has had problems with Big Dog Robinson and George Karl. Cassell wasn't always the most popular guy, either. And dont forget, Allen led UConn to an NCAA championship. He was also on a team that went to the ECFs and nearly to the Finals. I think he's accomplished just as much, if not more in his career than Mitch Richmond or Chris Mullin ever have. He might not be remembered as a champion, but he'll probably be remembered as a damn good player and an all-around nice guy. I've gone back to liking Shaq now that he's out of LA. I loved him in Orlando.
Shaq's just always rubbed me the wrong way since he went up against the Dream and got schooled. I've always had a disdain for him because of his lack of skill in his game, he's mainly an athletic big man who made the most of his size, strength and quickness. On the other hand I should hate Kobe for what he did to Pippen in Pippen's old age but I just hated him because of what he did to the Blazers but I always thought he was a tremendous player. I always sort of liked him but he was always in a situation in which I would pull against him but now barring any games vs. the Rockets I will pull for Kobe. If he made a sneaker with Nike I'd def buy it.
honestly, that's damn near the first thing i think of every time i think of ray allen. then his weird delivery on his 3's. and kobe isn't gonna be remembered for the rape case and allen not remembered for being a team player, allen won't be much remembered because he never really won big or seemed to make a huge difference and kobe will be remembered as one of the greatest players ever who hit tons of big shots (and that's if he does nothing from now on) and as part of the shaq/kobe duo (it's only fitting that those two will always be mentioned together no matter how much they hate each other).
If you don't think "rape case" won't be one of the 5 things people associate with Kobe Bryant going forward, you're kidding yourself. It was a story that, unfortunately, dominated the sports world for an entire year and, perhaps, ultimately led to the break-up of the Shaq/Kobe duo - which Kobe will also be remembered for. But the "rape case" will be part of his history, and will make every 30 minute special about his career as time passes.
And they have the nerve to compare him to Michael? Yeah right...his game might be up there on the level but as far as a person off the field and he commands respect and makes his teams better? Forget about it!
oh i didn't mean that the case wouldn't be remembered, because obviously it was huge, and it will be on whatever "behind the glory" or "sportscentury" thing they make, but it won't be what he's remembered for. i think by the time we get 10 years down the road and kobe's retiring and the case has faded, it'll just be a big thing that gets brought up but he will be far more remembered for his basketball career. especially since he was found innocent and the case will pretty much be behind us from this point forward. or maybe he can just go the mike tyson route and do so many other crazy things that the rape case seems like a fairly normal moment in his life.
As a on-time-diehard Kobe backer, I still feel obligated to stand up for the guy whenever I read something like this... But then my feeling of loyalty fades and is replaced by the obvious fact that he is in a class of his own when it comes to arrogant vanity. Still, I think what Kobe is going through now is similar (in a very, very loose analogy) to what Jerry Jones had to endure as owner of the Cowboys. Before you stop reading, just bare with me... JJones came into the league and had immediate success with the Cowboys (3 rings, just like Kobe) However, his ego drove him to fire his partner in success (Jimmy Johnson) because he felt he was not given proper individual credit for the success of his team (just like Kobe drove away Shaq and Phil) Jones then had to suffer through almost a decade of embarrassing seasons as his overconfidence resulted in mistake after mistake in running his team, whether it be cap management, player evaluations, etc...(just like what Kobe will probably have to endure for a year or two as he realizes he really can't do it all by himself) Now, Jones (in my eyes) has redeemed himself by finally eating crow, admitting he was wrong, and hiring the help (BParcells) needed to make his team a winner again. Hopefully it won't take ten years, but I've got to believe that Kobe is too smart to let his ego hinder his success for too long once he figures out that even he cannot do it all for a winning team.
Sounds reasonable, but how's Kobe going to hook up with another dominant big man. Those guys don't grow on trees you know. Personally, I feel that unless Kobe turns into MJ+, he's not going to be able to sniff another championship in his career. With Garnett and Duncan being just about as old as Kobe, and the tandem of Yao/T-Mac being younger, and all of them playing in the West, it'll be tough for Kobe to breakthrough unless he goes superhuman on us.
I think that's a great analogy Milos. The only thing I would disagree with is that I think Shaq and Kobe were not going to see any other championships together. Shaq had clearly become complacent, and no matter how much of an ass Kobe can be, I think Shaq was more of the problem on the court. The guy was fat, became injury prone, and just wasn't as motivated. It took getting shipped out of L.A. to motivate him to lose some weight. Think about this, has Shaq really improved as a player since he came into the league? Shaq is the same player he was as a rookie. If he can't run over you, he's just average. A lot of people think L.A. kept the wrong player but I disagree.
2 points: * He wasn't found innocent. * O.J. was found innocent too. I know I still hear about his 2,000 yards rushing more than I hear about that pesky murder trial.
OJ's playing days were long gone and the OJ case was really the "trial of the century" and was such a polarizing and transfixing event that it obviously is most of what we remember about OJ. further, pretty much everyone thinks OJ did it, kobe's case is pretty much a he said/she said that people fall on either side of. given that kobe's got another decade of playing to bury this while OJ was done, the fact double murder surpasses rape as a charge, the fact kobe isn't universally thought of as guilty, and the fact kobe's going to sell a lot more jerseys and be in the limelight for many other things means i'm pretty sure this luster of this case will have faded in time. the rape case will always be something mentioned when kobe is brought up after he's done but no way is it the first thing assuming he does nothing else to reinforce it.
I knew someone would bring up O.J. The comparison isn't even close. First of all, O.J.'s playing days were long behind him. There are people who never saw him play, such as myself, who was there for the trial. It was a murder trial. And it was probably the most sensationalized trial in American History, at least top 5. You guys really need to see the documentary HBO did on O.J.'s trial. Besides the factors I mentioned, the documentary goes into the issue of O.J. being the first black sports celebrity really accepted in white America, which adds a totally different dimension to his case. O.J.'s case is more than a murder trial, its a study of white and black relations in America. The two situations are not even in the same galaxy.
I was just bringing up that people do tend to remember trials over achievements. If you want, I could bring up Nixon who was able to get us into China, but is remembered for being impeached.
Hmm it's odd that Kobe is being doubted or at least his team is when he has Odom and Butler at his side. I'm lookin for he and Odom to be the closest tandem we will ever see to Pippen and Jordan and that Odom will make the team a winner in much the same way Pip did by deferring for the W. Also Butler is a wild card, granted their pg and C position are shaky I'm sure they'll find away to get around it. Bold and out there prediction, just my little hunch, watch out for the Lakers.
I have to say, I don't love Shaq's game for the very reasons you describe, but his personality has grown on me. He doesn't take himself too seriously and this spat with Kobe definitely makes him out to be the good guy. Meanwhile, Kobe has to be one of my least favorite players ever. I'd put him right up there with Stephon "I can't play with KG" Marbury and Karla "Elbows to the Face" Malone in the pantheon of NBA losers.
And yet Shaq was still the more effective player than Kobe. Who says they couldn't have won anymore titles? If Kobe would have bought more into Phil's system and got along with Shaq I bet they could have beaten Detroit.
