Rate our PG's, 1-5, explain...

I am glad someone else is seeing the samething that I see on this we should see what another team will give us for him asap. we should have done this right after the lakers game. can anyone put together a package for artest or maybe maggette. or even stephen jackson. all are available now hell troy murphy is also available

 

stephen jackson is a chucker and has crappy percentages. I doubt we want maggette cause he seems like a taller mike james (attitude-wise), and artest is...well, artest.

 

Ahhhh, now we are starting to scratch the surface of the fundamental problem with this team.

You see, with McGrady playing point, it makes it really difficult to have an effective point guard. The ideal point guard with McGrady at the point would have to play great D, be able to handle the ball and distribute secondary to McGrady (since this team has no Pippen to go along with Jordan), and be able to can spot up jumpers. That's a mixture of Rafer (handle), Luther (shot), and VSpan (defense). Really, what we are after is a combination of John Paxson and Pippen. When you look at the Bulls, their 2 primary ball handlers were Jordan and Pippen. Their PG was actually their third primary ball handler. We don't have another primary ball handler outside McGrady. The point guard is the secondary ball handler when McGrady is on the floor. You get McGrady coming off all those picks and looking to turn the corner, driving it to the rim and either having to finish after all that or make the dish for the shot. You are putting him in primary position for injury because of all the contact that they let go on him, not to mention wearing his body down. McGrady is 6'9" and while he does a very good job running PnR, he is not the quickest at turning the corner out there. It takes a lot out of him doing all that. It takes a lot out of his legs. And that effects his jump shot.

In my opinion, this is the fundamental flaw in the way that we are playing that will be exposed come playoff time. I don't think our offense as currently being run is set up to maximize the talents that we have on the roster. It is instead set up to put the ball in McGrady and Yao's hands as often as possible with the other players just being afterthought plug-ins who are in there to defend, rebound, and hit open jump shots. And it is set up to make McGrady primarily a distributor (which he is very good at) instead of primarily a scorer (which he is one of the greatest ever at).

Our offense basically right now is McGrady gets the ball, and somebody comes and sets a pick, McGrady goes around the pick and looks to turn the corner, shoot the jumper, or dish to a shooter. When Yao gets back, our offense becomes screens down low for Yao's post ups, and then Yao gets the shot or the kick out to a shooter. When 111 is on the floor together, we get to see the PnR come crunch time and occasionally at the end of the shot clock or when we really need a bucket. The problem with just having spot up shooters on the floor is when you get in the playoffs, you are facing teams with much better defensive rotations and all of a sudden they can effectively double Yao or McGrady and still bother the shooters enough to knock their shot off.

In my opinion, the ideal offense with Yao and McGrady would involve a 3rd player, the point guard, as a scorer/finisher/distributor. If you have a point guard that can run pick and role with our bigs, finish at the rim, distribute, and be the primary ball handler or at least the second primary ball handler, then I think the offense should be run through the point guard. You can go to McGrady at the point at any time. But if you have a point that can run PnR, score, and distribute, why not let him run pick and roll early with Yao, Hayes, or Juwan in the case of Yao being out. Then you let McGrady play off the ball, get his legs under him so he can score the basketball (his greatest strength). Then you have a 3 pronged attack. Now, I am not saying all this because I am a huge fan of VSpan. (I do like him a lot.). I'm suggesting this because it makes the most sense for our team right now. VSpan is the best PnR point guard we got, by far. And while he doesn't have the 3 point shot, VSpan's midrange game especially right there at the top of the key, is very, very good. He would still get the ball to McGrady, believe me. And he would get the ball to Yao every time that Yao got into post position. None of this looking at Yao and dribbling to the other side bit. He would get the entry pass to Yao. And at the same time, if the defense cut off the post up then Yao or whoever just comes up and sets the pick for the PnR instead of running to the other side of the floor and trying to repost as the ball swings back around. The ball swinging around to the weak side should be for a shot from the corner, not so that we can repost Yao. Reposting Yao on the weak side when the ball is swung around should be the 3rd or 4th option, simply because of the wear and tear that it takes on Yao. He has to work so hard down there. We should make it as easy as possible on Yao and McGrady. If VSpan were playing in an offense with this design, with McGrady playing off the ball and looking for the advantage (whether it be post up, slash, or spot up), VSpan is the kind of PG that is going to get the ball where it needs to go. And then with him breaking down the opponent the whole game from the top on the picks, when it comes crunch time, there are so many other things that we could do.

VSpan is a great passer, a very good finisher, and a very good midrange shooter to go along with a very good defender. He is not a 3 point shooter (just like Tony Parker is not a 3 point shooter). We are wasting his skill set by having him spot up at the 3 point line. It's stupid. Rafer on the other hand is a good dribbler/penetrator who has to look for the pass when he penetrates because his finishing ability is questionable. And his defense is average to poor, his midrange game stinks, and his 3 point shooting blows hot and cold. Rafer is not your third guy. He's your 4th guy in an offense that is heavily overloaded to 111 and only then because he is starting. Really, Rafer is probably our sixth offensive option behind 111, Battier, Head, and Bonzi. Head is a great shooter. He can't dribble, can't pass, is a horrible finisher right now, and his midrange game is suspect. When Head is out there in the halfcourt offense, he's basically a spot up shooter, that's it. And it makes McGrady become the only ball handler. Or if McGrady isn't in there, we either have ball handling problems or Rafer is playing back there with Luther in an undersized backcourt that basically hangs out at the 3 point line. Any opponent defense should shadow him at the 3 point line and force him to put the ball on the floor and his efficiency goes in the toilet. He is one dimensional. And Rafer is a very mediocre to poor multidimensional.

But, if you are running an offense that incorporates the varied skills of a point guard like VSpan, there are a lot of possibilities that open up. Instead of the defense dictating to you, you dictate to the defense. You force the defense to adjust instead of them forcing us to adjust. When you have one dimensional players or players with mediocre skill sets, then the defense can pressure the ball into their hands and let those players try to beat them.

I can't help but remember when Tony Parker was a rookie. He was a rookie playing the point guard position under Poppovich, one of the toughest if not the toughest coaches in the league. But Poppovich recognized early that his future was with Parker (19 year old Euro). Pops had Terry Porter on that team playing point. Porter was at the end of his career. And Pops played Porter, but he kept integrating Parker into the team, giving him minutes, putting up with his mistakes. Pops knew that Parker had skills and he had to develop. He played the kid (19 year old rookie) and let Porter help mentor him. He gave him minutes.

To me, it is so obvious what needs to be done at the point position. Luther is a great kid and a tremendous shooter but until he improves, he cannot run the point effectively. Rafer is very average. He has no standout skills. He is a very good passer but that strength is negated by his weakness shooting and finishing. Teams play him for the pass instead of the shot and it makes it difficult for him to pass. VSPan is a raw, talented pick and roll point guard. He's not a 3 point shooter. But he is a scorer, finisher, and distributor who is turnover prone because he is on a new team with all new teammates and a whole new offensive system that he is having to learn. And the system is not really built to emphasize his skill sets. And the thing is we have all seen glimpses of that skill set during the preseason when he was running that PnR with Yao or otherwise running the fast break and finishing. He is stronger, quicker, and faster than Rafer. He needs minutes and the offensive system needs to be tweaked to maximize his strengths, not emphasize his weaknesses. Give him some minutes and his turnovers will go down and his assists and effectiveness will go up.

Not to mention JLIII as an afterthought. When Rafer is shooting bad, JLIII is a better option at the point than him. I'm pretty confident that even though JLIII is not a good passer that if he were in a PnR offense, he would be very effective. Quick, quick, quick. Only way to describe him.

 

I don't think anyone should receive a 5 for any of the categories. 5's in my mind are reserved for league stars, like Ray Allen would get a 5 for shooting, Nash would get a 5 for passing and penetration...etc etc.

 

should defense should be number 1 on list of responsibilities for OUR PG......... followed by passing, shooting the J and dribbling the ball and getting us into a set

 

what he said...

 

The stats line in tonight's boxscore won't tell the true story, but the difference between VSpan and Lucas as a playmaker couldn't be more pronounced if one actually watched the game.

VSpan constantly sought to break down opponents' defense with his dribble penetration and created scoring opportunities for his teammates. He dished twice to Hayes in the low post. Hayes blew the first one due to lack of anticipation, but duly scored with an easy layup on the 2nd pass from VSpan. On two other occasions, VSpan kicked out the ball to Padgett who was wide open at the 3-point line but inexplicably elected to pass up the shots twice to somebody else. VSpan could have easily had 3 or more assists in this game in only 4 minutes of play if his teammates had been more competent.

On the other hand Lucas hardly displayed any desire to get his teammates involved in offense. The selfish, diminutive garbage man is all about playing his own game. Time and time again he left his teammates in limbo on the offensive half court. Don't let the boxscore fool you, folks, Lucas is not a PG material by any measure. You can't count on him to be a playmaker if he is called upon for the task. The more Novak plays with Lucas at the same time on the court, the faster the best shooter on this team loses his shooting touch.

 

I add defense,and Luther into this

5erfect(Like Yao's turnaround shoot)
4:awsome(Like Howard's mid-rage jump shoot)
3:normal(Like T-mac's defense)
2:bad(Like Haye's free throw)
1oor(Like Mutombo's speed)


Alston
Shot:3
Passing:4
Court vision:2
Penetration/Stamina:2
Leadership:2
Defense:2

Lucas
Shot:3
Passing:2
Court vision:1
Penetration/Stamina:2.5
Leadership:1
Defense:1

Spanoulis
Shot:1
Passing:2
Court vision:3
Penetration/Stamina:3
Leadership:1
Defense:4

Head
Shot:5
Passing:2
Court vision:2
Penetration/Stamina:2
Leadership:2
Defense:2

 

what he said, about what he said

 

Alston
Shot:3 (but his best : Drives and 3pters really look like his worse, shot should be kept on the bench 'till the 4th Qtr.)
Passing: 4 (his best attribute along with ball handling)
Court vision: 3 (sporadic)
Penetration/Stamina: 2 (penetrates allright, finishes not so)
Leadership: 1 (don't care how vocal he is, excells only when things are going swell, disappearing acts when things go south, meant to be led not lead)
Defense: 1 (And this is being generous with the absence of a 0 rating, it's amazing how well opposing pg's do against him)

Lucas
Shot: 3 ( But, more dependable than Alston)
Passing: 2 ( the little dribbler pt 3)
Court vision: 1 ( I just don't see it)
Penetration/Stamina: 3 ( Decently effective)
Leadership: 1 ( unlikely)
Defense: 1 ( a huge.. or small as it were.. defensive liability)

Spanoulis
Shot: 1 ( more a 2, 3 possible with practice/gametime, aslong as he keeps it within 14ft and snaps out of the tentativeness and indecisiveness)
Passing: 3 (potentials there, just needs to ease it up a bit, learn his teammates habits, and adapt without leaving his trust of his natural instinct or overthinking)
Court vision: 4 ( It's definitely there)
Penetration/Stamina: 3.5 ( a 4 on getting past the defense everytime but, 2 on the finish however, unlike Alston has room for error, and a history of atleast being a solid finisher in international ball)
Leadership: 2 (Has the fire, has the confidence, just needs the knowledge (League style, Coaching, Team sets) down,and consistency in play)
Defense: 3.5 (not ready to give the guy a 4, but he does always stay infront of his man and always pestering)

Head
Shot: 5 ( aslong as it stays behind the arc)
Passing: 2 ( Brand spanking new to this quality, doing ok so far)
Court vision: 2 ( limited potential on this getting any better)
Penetration/Stamina: 3 (Gets there ok, just can't get it in on a consistent basis, room to improve like V-Span)
Leadership: 2 ( He's got the coldblood, but hasn't the style to carry a team and isn't very vocal)
Defense: 2.5 ( some nights 3, has the potential for respectable defense)

 

Ditto, what he said.

And that's why I threw out that question about the PG duties on this team. In many respects I like Tmac doing his Point Forward routine. But I still like the idea of someone else being the PG and Tmac being able to float around and look to be just a scorer on a team that sometimes struggles offensively.

The Tony Parker reference is a good one. You look at the Spurs and in many regards they can be the blueprint for this Rockets team.

"Loosely", think......

PG: Parker / Vspan?
SG: Ginobili / Tmac
SF: Bowen / Battier
PF: Elson / Hayes
C: Duncan / Yao

Duncan has two guys in Parker/Ginobili that can drive and cause havoc. We have one guy, Tmac. Vspan "could" be that 2nd guy down the road. He isn't ready now. BUT the more time he gets on the court to improve, the quicker he will have a chance to be that guy.

 

man you could be on to something here good post