Rashard Lewis was on the roids! Suspended first 10 games

I think it's quite a few, Tracy Mcgrady can do it for sure. I remember an ESPN magazine article about Tracy during his first year with the magic. Tracy improved his bench from 100lb to 300lb after his 2nd year with Toronto.

Avery Johnson could do 500, I read that Yao and Howard can do above 300. Those are the guys I know for SURE because I read them in an article, with the players themselves talking about it. You don't think MJ could hit 300?

I don't know how many times people have to tell you this for it to sink in. PEDs do more than just improve someone's bench press, they allow guys to heal faster, be more explosive, get more cut, etc.... Why do you think Rashard Lewis takes those supplements? PEDs can do everything those supplements can, just faster and better. It's not the 70s any more, drugs are more advanced now.

 

I tried to search for the article about Tracy but couldn't find it. It was a real long article about Tracy becoming perhaps the best player in the NBA, published in his 1st year with the magic when he was going off.

It had a bunch of stuff about how he struggled at first in Toronto, didn't like his coach, was real unhappy, felt cast aside when VC became the face of the franchise. Then they talked about his dedicating himself to his craft, honing his body, getting workouts in, improving his weak bench, that was a real big deal in the article. His improved body and strength gave Tracy the confidence he needed to excel in his 3rd year with Toronto. I'm not saying Tracy was on any drugs, maybe he just had an incredible body and ate right and took vitamins.

But rest assured, Tracy Mcgrady can bench 300, or he could in 2001.

It'd be good if someone could find the article here, maybe it was posted when Tracy got traded here.

 

Then why is tracy doing 135 in the video you posted?

You keep citing exceptions which basically illustrate how weak your argument is.

Yao Ming lifting 300, for a relatively short-armed 315 lb man, is not exactly super-impressive - but you are saying that he's been roiding up? OK...

Avery Johnson is the example of why most NBA players aren't likely to use steroids - he was a short compact, short armed guy, like most power lifters. And by the way, while I did read a story that said he could bench a ton, your claim that he was throwing up 500 is patently ridiculous. Avery played at 175. The world record for the 165 lb weight class is 485, it's 525 for 185.

Basically, you're telling me that Avery Johnson was breaking the weight class world record in his spare time every time went into the weight room. OK...

Apocryphal stories like that aren't much help in this discussion. I'm sure if you asked Avery though he'd tell you he did 700.

Can PED's replace your cartilage? Can they lessen the stress on tendons and ligaments? Do they result in less pressure on a bum ankle - or do they have the opposite effect? Now add it up over 82 games - how do you think carrying an extra 20 lbs of muscle helps you over that span?

NBA players are susceptible to injuries in ways that steroids don't help, rather they hurt. You don't seem to get the physics of the sport, and more importantly, the NBA season.

Allen Iverson might be able to increase his bench press if he used steroids, or his 40 yard dash time - but it wasn't going to make his first step any faster, his crossover any crossier, or his shot any straighter. In fact it may even have the opposite effect. Which is probably why he didn't use them.

 

Avery Johnson can not bench 500. That is a load of bull.
Also, it's pretty standard for somebody to be able to bench their weight. :/
And I really doubt Tracy could only bench at 100 during his first year, that's is extremely weak...

 

Hershel Walker did not lift weights (although he did a insane amount of push ups.)

http://www.playboy.co.uk/life-and-style/interview/79172/3/20Q-Herschel-Walker/contentPage/0/

Herschel Walker: "No, I never lift weights. While the other players are doing that, I'm running track."

Bo Jackson did not lift weights.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1007321/2/index.htm

"Bo tells a story of a guy at the local gym ("on the juice," he says) who challenged him to a weightlifting contest. Bo beat him, even though he doesn't lift weights. He tells the story with a shrug, his pride mostly secret. 'I'm just naturally strong,' he says."

Power is also very beneficial to a basketball player. If it was not why are incoming NBA prospects asked to perform the bench press? Why is it seen as a negative when a guy who is otherwise a great athlete performs poorly at the draft workouts for bench press?

 

LMAO.

 

what was bo doing in the gym? Not lifting weights? I don't believe that one for a second.

Edit: he apparently did lift weights just not that seriously

Actually, if I'm not mistaken Kevin Durant was horrible at the bench press and could not complete a single rep- that neither affected his draft status nor his performance. I don't think too many teams take it seriously.

 

He's doing 225lb for 5 reps (1:05) and later doing what appears to be around 275lb (2:03) for at least one rep in this video.

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I'm with you here. 500lb bench for Avery Johnson is absurd.

HGH promotes the regeneration of cartilage. To what extent is not known yet but there is no doubt it has a positive effect on regeneration of cartilage.

Again, HGH promotes regeneration of connective tissue.

Who said anything about 20lbs or even 2lbs for that matter? You need to read up on the science if you think all PED will add weight.

If it helped him recover from workouts or recover quickly from injuries (or maybe not even sustain those injuries) it would be beneficial, yes? What if it made him stronger but added little or no weight? What if it helped him maintain his explosiveness later in his career?

Again, you're painting all PED with one broad stroke. It's more complex than that. I'm not promoting that all the NBA players are on PED. In fact, I think it's much less than in other sports but that's because the science is progressed well beyond what most people (including trainers) know. The NBA is behind the curve but I'm sure there are players using and I suspect that number will increase once more people realize that PED are not just about mass and strength.

 

Well, Bo himself said he didn't lift weights. Either way, my points stands.

Then why was it news? Better yet, why is it widely reported that he is working out very hard in the weight room this year?

 

All right, you guys got me, Avery could only do 405 lb. I remembered wrong, mea culpa.

Some more numbers for you: http://www.gametimeworkouts.com/

Shaq: Claims 455
Ben Wallace: Claimed 460 in muscle and fitness magazine
Earl Boykins 315
Bynum: 305

Just for fun:
Mike Vick: 335
Tiger Woods: 300

 

Considering that he didn't really have workouts, or even "practice" - I highly doubt it. Do you remember Iverson during the season in his prime? The guy was basically battering himself for 100 nights a year. He was more like a marathon runner than any other type of athlete, he probably played at 165 lbs.

how much of his "explosiveness" came from having pure muscle power, and how much came from reaction time, coordination and god given ability.....Usain Bolt could juice himself up to death, but he would never be able to stay in front of Iverson off the dribble. The skill set that he had isn't one that HGH or steroids would have helped.

 

And he apparently wasn't telling the truth...who cares?

Because idiots read too much into weight room numbers..as Rick Barnes said at the time:

"If people question his strength, they're stupid. If they (the NBA) are looking for weight lifters to come out of Texas, that's not what we're producing. There are a lot of guys who can bench press 300 pounds in the NBA who couldn't play dead in a cowboy movie. Kevin's the best player in the draft — period, at any position."

PS - rep points for you if you can tell me who the number one bench presser was in the NBA draft combine this year and his draft position (hint, it's not Blake Griffin)

 

Not too far off (confirmed in magazine):

A.I. - 167 / max 215
Steve Nash - 152/ max 207
Tony Parker - 146 / 202
Kobe - 262 / max 312
Dirk - 212 / max 281

Claims:

 

So increased recovery time from workouts (oh wait he didn't work out according to you) and games isn't beneficial? Fewer injuries and/or quicker recovery from injuries wouldn't be beneficial either?

As players age they lose athleticism due to physical wear on the muscles and connective tissue. Can we agree on that?

If so, slowing or reversing that wear would be beneficial to a player.

 

What about Herschel Walker? How do you know Bo Jackson was lying? The point is that you were wrong when you said:

"Other than the kicker, I guarantee you you will not see a single NFL player who does not spend substantial time in the weight room during his NFL career."

And?

I said the NBA teams test incoming players bench press strength. It must count for something. Kevin Durant is now working feverishly to increase his strength and to add some muscle. Nowhere did I say that bench press is more important than skill or talent. My point is that strength is beneficial to an NBA player. NBA players and coaches seem to agree.

Don't know. Don't care. It has nothing to do with my point.

 

I know Bo Jackson was lying because his Teammate Tom "Flash" Gordon said he lifted weights in the quote I posted. How do you know he didn't...?

Anyway...are there any current NFL players who don't touch a weight room? How do you think the percentage of NFL players who go to the weight room compares to the NBA? And why are you even bothering to have this argument?

Sure it's better to be strong than weak for an NBA player - but it's a lot harder to translate that into success. That's why the strongest guy in the combine last year (Notre Dame's Luke Harangody) had to go back to school and why a bunch of the weakest players (Omari Caspi) got drafted.

 

Do people really believe Herschel Walker looked like that on push ups and sit ups?

 

I was just refuting your statement.

Thanks for finally acknowedging the point.

 

It does seem highly unlikely but I've seen natural athletes who are very big, very lean and very strong without touching weights so considering I have not met 1/1000 of a % of the athletes in this country it's really hard for me to say the guy is lying.

I have yet to hear a team mate of his say he was lying either and considering the egos of professional athletes it's reasonable to think some of them would.