Rangers get Lee give up SO MUCH TALENT, uhum Astros....

At the risk of going off topic, I'll give you my opinion on what I think of the GM position.

IMO, a GM of a team is to put together the best possible roster and coaching staff possible. This applies to football, basketball, and baseball. A GM's job is not to win a championship, but give the team the highest likelihood of contending year after year, both balancing long term success with short term success. In this, I believe Morey has done his best. Just because his players, specifically Yao and T-Mac, failed him, doesn't mean he didn't do what's best for the team in his years here.

On Ed Wade, due to the general longer rebuilding process of baseball vs basketball/football, my goal for him as the GM is to build for future success. As long as he accomplishes this task, then he has succeeded as the GM. He inherited crap, but he needs to improve as much as he's realistically capable of. Right now, I still give him the grade of INC. I do feel that if he can move Oswalt for solid prospects, even if we swallow his salary, then he should make the move. It is the logical decision. And if he doesn't do it, or if Drayton prevents him from doing so, then the Astros front office has failed in this.

 

The Lakers series was a blast two seasons ago. It isn't all about winning a championship. Only one team gets to do that a season per league except for college football sometimes. Watching the Rockets play well in summer league was fun just seeing the players out there.

I think fans in general care more the aspect of their team winning a championship than watching a team build through the years and actually watching them win a championship. Each game is important. Be like an eight year old kid at the ballpark, watch the game for the enjoyment of the game and not how it impacts the standings.

The Astros have been hard for me to watch as their just isn't much enjoyment outside of watching Oswalt pitch or trying to see a glimmer of hope in Castro.

 

Yeah...but isn't it sad that this franchise is left celebrating a first round playoff victory? This is a franchise that went to the Finals 4 times in 16 seasons from 1980-1995.

You don't have to win a championship to satisfy me...I get that. I'm a Houston sports fan after all. But in a league where more teams make the playoffs than don't...we have a grand total of one playoff series victories over roughly the last 13 seasons.

I'll take the Astros last 13 years over the Rockets last 13 years every day of the week and twice on Sunday. I honestly can't imagine thinking otherwise, unless you just don't like baseball.

Ultimately...the whole In Morey We Trust thing eludes me. I'm not saying he's a bad GM...but let's put together some sustained success before we coronate him.

 

Palabra, hermano!

Morey has done a good job overall, but if you just started paying attention recently to what our fans and media say about him, you'd think this team had at least been to the NBA Finals under his stewardship. They haven't, yet everyone falls all over themselves to be the first in line to suck his wang and talk about what a genius he is. Geez, people, give it a rest. This team has failed more than it's succeeded, so let's stop this MOREYMOREYMOREY sillytalk until the team gets it done.

On the other hand, there's the Astros and Ed Wade. Many fans and media in this city bang on the team and the front office mercilessly, usually repeating unfair or outright bogus arguments about Ed Wade that they heard from the tomato-throwers in Philly and New York. I never really had much of an opinion about Ed Wade either way before he arrived in Houston, so my opinion is not colored by what others' opinions of his work with the Phillies. I judge him solely by what he's done in Houston, and I see a GM who has done well under the circumstances. Although every GM is ultimately judged by an organization's rate of success, in the short term I think that Wade (like Daryl Morey) has "won" most of his moves. However, because Ed Wade for whatever reason earned a bad reputation with statnerd blowhards and East Coast fishwrappers, everything he does in Houston is judged elsewhere through the prism of his past. Stupid.

If anyone gets a raw deal in this town, it's Ed Wade.

 

Wait, you're saying based on their current results Morey's reputation should be downgraded while Wade's should be elavated? What alternative universe is this?

Anyways the reason (other than results-see the the rockets roster upgrade the last 3 years with no high drafts picks or cap room) people are happy with Morey and not Wade is because it's about the decision making process. Circumstances and luck play an enormous role in short-term results (particularly in inherited sitations for gm's), but people correctly realize that constantly putting the team in the best position to win (given the circumstances) will lead to the best long-term results. Otherwise, given Mails and Maxs results orientated analysis, Tim Purpura would be the best gm in Astros history. Hey he got results!

 

I'll take the last 20 years of the Rockets over the last 20 years of the Astros. I honestly can't imagine thinking otherwise, unless you just don't like basketball.

I'll take the last 4 years of the Rockets over the last 4 years of the Astros. I honestly can't imagine thinking otherwise, unless you just don't like basketball.

I love baseball. I love watching a beautifully pitched game. I like watching good defense. I like seeing young prospects. I like seeing a guy gunned out at third by a right fielder with a cannon. The Astros just don't have that and don't look like they'll have any of this for years.

 

Please tell me how you know what the front office is thinking or planning to do with any potential trade partner? Are you an insider with reliable information, or are you just mouthing off about the organization based on what you've heard Buster Olney report on BSPN?

Do not make the mistake of investing anything in those reports. Posturing is part of the trade process, and teams that want Oswalt are undoubtedly using their mouthpieces in the media to try and work the market in their favor. They want you to believe that there's no interest in Roy because of his salary or because the Astros refuse to swallow a truckload of quarters, when in reality there's probably no truth to these statements. There most definitely is interest in Oswalt, but the Astros aren't going to tip their hand early. Nor should they. God, I can't believe this has to be explained to some people here. Bargaining 101.

The Astros just spent a franchise record amount for any draftee or international free agent signing. They let Valverde walk in free agency and used his departure to get two additional first round picks. I don't know where you get off thinking you know better than they about the value of Roy Oswalt or the need to build the farm system.

Morey/Les understand this. The Astros brass? Not so much.[/QUOTE]

 

there are few industries more "results-oriented" than pro sports.

obviously you can't consider that alone...and i noted as much in my posts.

 

ABSOLUTELY. Ed Wade built the foundation for a WS winner in Philly and he's done a good job so far in Houston. Like I said earlier, the gasbags in the national baseball press and the snarksters at the math nerd sites reflexively pan every move he makes. They have never judged his moves independently or fairly because in their mind it's always "Ed Wade is a Big Fat Idiot!!!" Why is it that they're the loudest when the Astros trade for a "middling reliever" like LaTroy Hawkins or a starting pitcher like Randy Wolf, only to never mention how wrong they were once those players get the job done on the field. Why is it that none of them are giving him credit for a fantastic FA signing in Brett Myers? Why is it that none of them are talking about how well Lindstrom and Lyon have pitched? Because it doesn't fit the narrative about Ed Wade. Look, I like Morey a lot, but his narrative is the exact opposite of Wade's. Neither GM deserves their respective narratives.

 

[/QUOTE]

I think I have to wait until after the trade deadline before responding to you. But if it's as you say, and the Astros can get nice prospects without having to pay Oswalt, then I retract my entire statement.

 

You give Wade to much credit and the National Media to much blame. Wade has done an okay job starting to rebuild the farm system but I would credit Heck more then Wade on that. Wade signings of Feliz, Matsui and Oscar V. have been HORRIBLE along with not re-signing Wolf and OVERPAYING for Lyons just head scratchers. He made some nice moves in acquiring some guys like Myers, Wolf, Hawk and Lindstrom so credit goes there but nice job would be overstating a bit.

You may be right about the media when concerning Oswalt and his value but bottom line is that Oz's contract is a MAJOR detractor in trading him and it only makes sense for teams to expect Drayton to pick the tab on some of it in exchange for quality prospects. The Lee trade was done with exactly that Philosophy in mind, Seattle picked up the tab on Lee's pro-rated deal and the Rangers sent prospects worth a darn back in return. I think Drayton will eventually get this by the deadline, IMO, but I wouldn't be surprised if we still see Roy in a Stros' uniform by season's end.

Oh yea...I'll tell Uncle D and Tal to get us some good beers but expect an increase in Sheriff Blaylocks Nachos too.

 

I think I have to wait until after the trade deadline before responding to you. But if it's as you say, and the Astros can get nice prospects without having to pay Oswalt, then I retract my entire statement.[/QUOTE]

The Oswalt trade, assuming it happens before the deadline, will be Wade's defining moment as Astros GM thus far. However, we should also acknowledge the possibility that the Astros don't move him now if they don't get what they want. If teams are lowballing us, I have no problem with Wade laughing in their face and hanging up on them. Unlike Cliff Lee, Roy Oswalt is still under contract for the next two seasons so the Astros have leverage over these teams. Any playoff contender in the market for a starting pitcher of Oswalt's caliber must be prepared to pay fair market value because the Astros have options the Mariners didn't. Wade can trade him now if he gets what he wants, or he can trade him later when a team is ready to pay up.

 

Oh foundation for WS winner? I thought in your argument you were judging him "solely by what he's done in Houston"? Never mind the atrocious moves to the mlb roster he did during his tenure in Philly or the fact that only 3 of the starting lineup of last year's world series team was acquired under his tenure. It's a longer post than I want to get into now, but Wade owes his job and his current reputation (by the minority that hold a positive view of him) to being in the right place at the right time.

Lindstrom was a good move, but for the rest...if you acquire a 100 lottery tickets, a couple will inevitable win. Whether it was a good move or not depends on your bankroll (whether you can afford to look long-term or short term), the price you paid and your expected value. Most of those acquisitions, along with Matsui, Feliz, Tejada, etc. etc., show a fundamental misunderstanding of how the front office evaulates things. Also i think it says something that the only successes you can point to are a bunch of middle relievers and a third of a season of a starter, for which the gm paid at least market value.

It's like the Astros are running an astonomy lab and have hired someone who still thinks the sun revolves around the earth. The rest of baseball has long past us by and the longer the Astros wait to change management the deeper a hole it will be to dig out.

 

I like Wade. He may put to much value on closers, but he's made some good moves. I don't think he's as bad as he is made out to be.

Morey has rebuilt the Rockets with the exception of Yao Ming. The Rockets have been over the salary cap every year he has been here. The Rockets bench is the best I've ever seen. I just wish Olajuwon had this team instead of Yao. Outside of the Rockets trading a lottery pick for Battier (not as bad as Feliz signing for 4 mil), Morey has been pretty good.

 

Sorry, disagree with this. Keeping Oswalt is not an option. Yes, you sell him even if it's 50 cents on the dollar. There's no scenario that keeping Oswalt benefit the Astros long term, either as a salary dump, or we swallow his salary and get good prospects back.

Unless that scenario involves Oswalt juicing up ala Clemens, and make miracle run at the Cy Young next year.

 

For the consumers-fans sure...Perhaps that was even the case for the executives that ran the industry 20 years ago. But now I think most franchises have gotten smarter and more sophisticated.

 

That is craptonkulous. You cannot on the one hand argue that the Astros need to think long-term and then on the other hand expect them to trade a player of Oswalt's caliber for fifty cents on the dollar simply for the sake of trading him. That is short-term thinking, not long-term. You must play the game and play it wisely.

They will trade him eventually, but they don't have to trade him this month when they can wait out the market until the offseason.

 

the astros are run by idiots who just dont get it

 

That's literally the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Success in sports isn't measured by sustained mediocrity, it's measured in championships. Division championships, conference championships, and league championships. Do you want Daryl Morey's cool internet pwnage videos and witty twitter updates or do you want Pat Riley's rings? Give me a break.

 

I am and I do, but that was directed at the statement about his reputation/results. Wade's reputation is rooted in the moves he made in Philadelphia, and that reputation has followed him to Houston, thereby explaining the inane over-the-top reactions we see whenever Ed Wade signs a veteran free agent or makes a boring trade for a middle reliever. Daryl Morey has never been a GM before he got the Rox job. He has never built another team that made it to a championship, and despite the howls from Philly sports fans, Ed Wade did. Eleven of the twenty five players on the Phillies WS team were guys acquired during Wade's tenure, including Utley, Howard, Ruiz, Victorino, Hamels, and Happ. Those guys weren't exactly insignificant, either. They were the foundation of that team. He has not done that in Houston so his grade is incomplete, but the truth is that the vast majority of his moves have been "wins" for him.

This is all the proof one needs to see that you are one of those who has been swindled by the anti-Wade gasbaggery. Only three starters blah blah blah....Utley, Howard, and Hamels were hardly just starters. Jesus. Where is the eyeroll emoticon?

Whoa, whoa, whoa! Lindstrom is hardly the only good move, and the fact that the guy has an established resume just blows apart this insipid offering of yours that it's dumb luck. Really? So it was dumb luck when he went out and got Hawkins and Wolf for a bag of peanuts? It was dumb luck when he flipped Lidge for All-World Defensive Whiz Michael Bourn? It was dumb luck when he went out and got Brett Myers on the cheap and the guy turned out to be arguably the best pitcher in the rotation this year? Not to mention guys like Jason Bourgeios....

WTF? You have no idea what you are talking about. The Astros have made probably four trades under Wade (Bourn, Valverde, Tejada, and Wolf) that could be considered worth talking about, and exactly none of them worked out against the Astros. Can you point to anyone worth a **** that the team gave up to do those deals? Truthfully, none of those moves did anything to hurt the team going forward. I find it interesting that the same people who have been bashing the team's minor leagues for the past six or seven years are the same ones who went ape**** over the Wolf, Hawkins, and Keppinger deals. They want it both ways--when Wade isn't making any deals, it's all about how crappy the Astros minor leaguers are, but when he flips said crappy minor-leaguer for a PROVEN MAJOR LEAGUE PLAYER, they promptly flip the script and prattle on about the Astros being in no position to give up minor league players. Get real, clowns. Either they're prospects or they're not, and if they're not and you are able to get a MLBer from a nothing prospect, you've won.

Pure b.s. based on nothing but Ed Wade hate. You've been conned, son.