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Random Trade Thread 2023-24

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Shark44, Jul 10, 2023.

  1. ApacheWarrior

    ApacheWarrior Member

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    Floor general...haha

    First 25 games
    VanVleet 6.2 assists in 37 minutes
    KPj 5.8 assists in 34.7 minutes (KPj was 6.2 assists in 21/22)

    The difference was Poeltl as a good roll man in PnR.

    You want to see a good roll man that would have helped KPj get
    8 assists per game.



    You don't want me to show you Sengun an hour late getting into
    good roll man position.
     
  2. ApacheWarrior

    ApacheWarrior Member

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    Floor general...haha

    First 25 games
    VanVleet 6.2 assists in 37 minutes
    KPj 5.8 assists in 34.7 minutes (KPj was 6.2 assists in 21/22)

    The difference was Poeltl as a good roll man in PnR.

    You want to see a good roll man that would have helped KPj get
    8 assists per game.



    You don't want me to show you Sengun an hour late getting into
    good roll man position.
     
  3. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

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    If you are referring to PNR possesions as the primary ball handler.

    Pnr stats for last season

    FVV - 8.1 possessions per game .96 ppp
    Green - 9.9 possessions .87 ppp
    KPJ - 8.5 possesions .84 ppp

    So FVV would be our best pnr ball handler instantly and Green second.
     
  4. ApacheWarrior

    ApacheWarrior Member

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    Exactly due to the presence of Poeltl.

    Neither Green nor KPj had Poeltl....they had too slow Sengun
     
  5. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

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    I mean Sengun is an excellent finisher at the rim with significantly more craft, footwork etc. There are many pnr possesions where Sengun was the roll man and he got the ball from a Green or KPJ pass and Sengun still created a shot because he did some fancy spin move and baby hook.

    Sengun is really good rolling to the rim.
     
  6. ApacheWarrior

    ApacheWarrior Member

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    John Collins 1.25 PPP as roll man
    Poeltl 1.17 PPP as roll man
    Sengun 1.09 as roll man

    I know, I know.....but we need a point guard that places the
    ball on a tee near the rim so Sengun looks better.

    With no spacing good luck with that.
     
    peleincubus likes this.
  7. peleincubus

    peleincubus Member

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    Rawwrrr! You’re just angry with these crappy players aren’t ya?!?!?
     
  8. jordnnnn

    jordnnnn Member

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    PNR Roll man stats

    Poeltl : 1.17 ppp (3.2 possessions per game)
    Sengun : 1.09 ppp (3.1 possessions per game)

    Hmm
     
  9. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

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    It's so hard to determine who is responsible for this. Is Poeltl having more competent pg play responsible for this or him being a more talented roll man?
     
    saleem and OremLK like this.
  10. jordnnnn

    jordnnnn Member

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    My determination would be that the difference between Poeltl and Sengun as finishers in the pick and roll is slim and wouldn’t be something I highlighted as reasoning why Houston’s pick and roll ball handlers were worse than FVV last season. Or that all Houston’s pick and roll ball handlers were missing was a Poeltl level finisher to really boost their assist/ppp numbers.
     
    fchowd0311 likes this.
  11. ApacheWarrior

    ApacheWarrior Member

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    No peleincubus, I feel our young kids will do just fine without the help of
    VanVleet and Dillon Brooks.

    Teach our young players defense? What the h*ll are our coaches going to do?

    VanVleet is suppose to teach our kids how to walk the ball up the court?
    KPj already knows how to do that.....Amen needs to run and gun.
    That's what I was sold on, that Amen is a beast in fast breaks and putting
    him with Jabari, Tari. Green, Tate, Cam....then we won't be taking
    advantage of that if Freddy gets his regular 36 minutes and he says
    Slow it down young ones!! We got to have low turnovers!!

    They are going to teach are kids how to shoot inefficient shots
    and be chuckers at a greater level. That's not winning basketball.

    And I said last year.....if Green/KPj chase the ball handler over the
    screen (Sengun sets up deep in drop back) the ball handler is going
    to pin their ears back and have a running start at Sengun and
    beat him like they did last year.

    Sengun would be two feet in front of the rim and guards
    would still elevate above and thru him. Plus Sengun will be
    in more foul trouble. That's why our guards went under screens...
    to protect Sengun.

    So if VanVleet goes over the top of screens near the 3-point line.
    Sengun is in drop coverage....you think Brooks help defense is
    the answer? It's going to be the athleticism of our young lengthy
    kids that will be the difference. Tari, Jabari, Amen, Whitmore (leaping ability)
    and their mobility.

    I do feel we would win more games with just coaching....minus
    VanVleet and Dillon.

    I would have overpaid for Brook Lopez, Cam Johnson and added
    Monte Morris&Jevon Carter. That would have been more bang
    for our buck
     
  12. peleincubus

    peleincubus Member

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    I'm in LA or really San Diego at a coffee shop while my kiddo is at a soccer camp for LA Galaxy and i just laughed out loud at the coffee shop on your bolded "young ones" part i read. Good stuff :p
     
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  13. peleincubus

    peleincubus Member

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    Also I would say I am split on who I would want for 2 years Van Vleet or Lopez each has their positive and negatives when considering the entire package. I would have taken Cam Johnson a million out of a million times over Brooks though. With the added benefit of hurting the Nets.
     
    ApacheWarrior likes this.
  14. RLP55

    RLP55 Member

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    ⬆️⬆️This!
    Why do so many posters think PNR = dunks. Lobs yes, PNR is finishing at the rim. Dunks are great, a layup is worth the same two points. The old Celtics perfected the PNR. Russell and later Cowens both finished at the rim. Sengun is just fine at finishing at the rim. Van Fleet will do wonders for the Sengun PNR.
     
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  15. dfbreyes

    dfbreyes Member

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    Jalen Green and Kevin Porter Jr for Clint Capela

     
    fchowd0311 likes this.
  16. peleincubus

    peleincubus Member

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    ...........................
     
  17. ApacheWarrior

    ApacheWarrior Member

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    It's a no brainer to me on both Brook Lopez and Cam Johnson.

    They give us a better blend of defense and offense.

    Brook Lopez was 2nd or 3rd in DPOY where guys like
    Giannis, Middleton and Jrue Holiday funneled the ball
    handler towards Lopez. Rockets would use Jabari, Tari,
    Jalen Green and KPj or Jevon Carter or Monte Morris
    in much the same capacity.

    Lopez also shot 3's which would improve our spacing.

    Cam Johnson is nothing spectacular, but he shot about 40%
    on about six 3's per game. About 41% on CnS 3's.

    Cam Johnson has been a backup for most of his career. If
    he fails to win the starting gig at SF or PF.....he doesn't
    have the ego not to be a backup making $30M. VanVleet
    and Brooks will imo.

    Monte Morris.......Amen / Jevon Carter
    Jalen Green...........KPj
    Cam Johnson........Cam Whitmore / Tari / Jabari
    Jabari.....................Tari / Sengun
    Brook Lopez...........Sengun

    Wins 40+ games........where as this team wins 31 as currently constructed.
     
  18. astrosrule

    astrosrule Member

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    Didn't you predict more than 31 wins LAST season? How can you predict less this season?
     
  19. ApacheWarrior

    ApacheWarrior Member

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    Yes gone over this last week

    1) weaker West after playoff teams made trades last year.
    D Mitchell to East and Gobert setting the T-Wolves back.
    Suns re-signing Ayton was a negative after Monte Williams
    blasted him for poor play in previous season. Lakers were
    old and had a lame roster. Woods hated that Porzingis role
    while with Houston....why would he accept it in Dallas?

    Lakers, Suns, Kings are now better. I like what Utah has done.
    Denver will still be good. Spurs with Wemby, Others just really
    needed a PG....Cameron Payne will help. Blazers Scoot, Sharpe,
    Jerami Grant, Simons, others (Dame) will surprise. Thunder with
    Chet joins a play in team.

    2) I projected better 3-pt shooting from us last preseason. Other than
    Jabari I don't expect the Rockets to get better, especially when you
    add volume chuckers like Fred VanVleet and Dillon Brooks. Those
    7-8 threes by each will turn into bricks that are long rebounds and
    run down our throats as fast break opportunities.

    3) new coaches often forces players to take a month to get use to
    the system, rotations, minutes, timing. And that's new coach being added
    to vet squad use to one another.

    Rockets shipped out TyTy, Garuba, Josh Christopher, Nix.

    Rockets drafted Amen, Cam Whitmore: they will hit rookie Wall after
    about 30 games just like Tari and Jabari did last year, and Green, Sengun
    had to adjust to the travel, speed of the game the season before.

    Brought in 4 vets: Fred VanVleet, Dillon Brooks, Landale, Holiday.
    It's one thing if they were on the same team.....but they were on
    different teams. They have to get use to Green, KPj, Sengun,
    Tari, Jabari, Tate....the two rookies.....plus each other (FVv,
    Dillon, Holiday, Landale). This isn't NBA2K where everything on
    paper works perfect. It will take months to get familiarity.




    And I didn't hit the mark of 34 wins last season. We won 22.
    We have more moving parts in the form of players, head coach,
    assistant coaches, offensive schemes, defensive schemes, one ball
    and 12 players playing tug-a-war with that one ball. Vegas also has
    the Rockets winning 31.5 wins this season. So what of it?
     
    Ancient Moabite likes this.
  20. peleincubus

    peleincubus Member

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    Yeah... Looking at that and thinking about it I would rather have that team as well. That bench of 5 players against other benches would be fun to watch too. I guess it's time to message Stone and tell him to redo it.
     
    ApacheWarrior likes this.

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