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Rafer isn't that bad ?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by DaDakota, May 11, 2008.

  1. AggNRox

    AggNRox Member

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    getting a big and good backup for 2 or 3 is our main focus. luther failed again in this playoff. he is also too small to hande those big 2s or 3s.

    as morey pointed out, if deke stay one more season, our center position should be ok for the next season. our pfs are good enough to match majority of teams. only missing part is to have a good backup for 2 or 3.
     
  2. Clutch

    Clutch Administrator
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    If you think that a non three-point shooting PG that is better in other areas would work (I personally don't, but maybe Adelman can make it work), then you have more options. T.J. Ford and Andre Miller are better scorers and PGs than Rafer Alston, but neither has any kind of range.

    Jose Calderon is a pipe dream, but he would be a massive upgrade in every single way on the offensive side of the ball, though you would probably lose some defensively (and on a side note -- it sure would be nice to have a guard at either position who is money from the FT line).

    Kirk Hinrich is a big financial risk because his contract is long (goes until 2012), but it goes down in cost each year. I think if he was in Rafer's spot he would see increases in percentages. Hinrich also had quite a reputation as a solid/tough defender, but I haven't seen him play enough to say.

    Beyond that, let's see how the lottery plays out. Derrick Rose and Jerryd Bayless are both expected to go in the Top 5, so which teams draft them? That could go a long way in determining what point guards become expendable. Mo Williams, Jamaal Tinsley, Kyle Lowry, Mike Conley, Javaris Crittenton, Ray Felton, Marcus Williams, Sergio Rodriguez, Jarrett Jack and Hinrich are potentials -- though some of those would be ways to solidify our backup PG rather than starters over Rafer.

    Also, where do Gilbert Arenas and Baron Davis end up? Will Allen Iverson still be in Denver?

    Yes, Rafer proved to be the best we had this past season, but now is the time to get better. Francis isn't going to come back -- he's just taking the $$. Unless you trade Rafer, he should make Aaron Brooks expendable because he should have good value. They absolutely should be trying to get an upgrade here (and I know they're aware), but like others have pointed out, I recognize it will be tough to accomplish this summer. In that event, make sure to lock up the backup PG spot with a guy who can provide different skills than Rafer and can reduce his minutes.
     
  3. Shay

    Shay Member

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    100% agree.
    I hope we can trade for Miller and sign Dooling with MLE as the backup pg.
    Dooling will really fit with this team , he will give us driving ability which we really lack and also some shooting.
    Most of all he can create on his own and still shoot an effective %.
     
  4. sook

    sook Rookie

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    What if we were to trade Yao for Derrick Rose and another Heat player like ricky daivs. Or trade Yao and b-jax for calderon and bosh? I have a feeling Yao is nver going to be the same b.c of that injury :(
     
  5. Shay

    Shay Member

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    Why do you think like that?
    Yao always comes back the same after injuries or even better , the problem with him is that he can't stay healthy.
     
  6. Czar

    Czar Member

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    Delfino would be good pickup as he´s a 2/3 who can shoot, finish near the basket and handle the ball well.
     
  7. crimmy88

    crimmy88 Member

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    from what i hear, delfino is a chucker.

    also.. is Hinrich hurt or injury prone? for some reason, he sucked bad this season. o_O
     
  8. Rocketeer

    Rocketeer Member

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    I like Rafer and I think he's a nice player. I think he brings leadership and some attitude that this team needs but I agree with most. He's not championship contender material. If we could keep him and bring him off the bench, I would be all for it but chances are that to get the PG that we nned, he probably needs to go.
     
  9. doublebogey

    doublebogey Member

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    These are the PGs that I consider as an upgrade over Rafer Alston. If Morey finds a way to bring one of them, I am all for it.
    Chris Paul
    Tony Parker
    Chauncey Billups
    Deron Williams
    Steve Nash
    Jason Kidd
    Mike Bibby

    Some fans want Jose Calderon which I think it's kind of Mike James Part II.

    Let's compare Alston 04' season to Calderon this season with the Raptors under Sam Mitchell:<Table><CAPTION><EM>Per 36 minutes</EM></CAPTION>
    <TR><TH><TD>Season<TD>FG%<TD>3P%<TD>FT%<TD>TRB<TD>AST<TD>STL<TD>BLK<TD>TOV<TD>PF<TD>PTS
    <TR><TH>Alston<TD>2004-05<TD>.414<TD>.357<TD>.740<TD>3.7<TD>7.8*<TD>1.6<TD>0.1<TD>2.3<TD>2.8<TD>15.1
    <TR><TH>Calderon<TD>2007-08<TD>.519<TD>.429<TD>.908<TD>3.4<TD>9.8<TD>1.3<TD>0.1<TD>1.8<TD>1.9<TD>13.4
    </table>
    *Alston's original assists per 36 minutes 6.8 is adjusted to 7.8 (6.8 + 1) for the following reasons:
    - Bryan Conlangelo has brought in more and better shooters to the Raptors in last 2 seasons.
    - As part of the results in improvement in roster, Raptors' FG% has improved from .444 in 04' to .463 in 06' and .468 in 07'.
    - As part of the results in improvement in roster, Raptors' assists have improved from 20.4 in 04' to 22.2 in 06' and 23.8 in 07'.
    - +1 adjustment to Alston's assists to reflect the improvement in roster in these last 2 seasons of the Raptors. +1 is a conservative low end estimate adjustment.

    Calderon's 0.5 lower in TOV can be basically offsetted by Alston's better STL & TRB. Taking in consideration of Calderon's 2 more assists, we can conclude that Calderon basically gives you 2 more points per 36 minutes in a better shooting %, of which, I think can be easily offsetted By Alston's better defense. Calderon's defense is as good as Steve Nash.

    I really dont think Jose Calderon is an upgrade over Rafer Alston. Will Jose Calderon still have the legs to shoot over 50% if he needs to play defense?

    It's a fact that Rafer Alston is poor in shooting. But with the package that Alston brings, I really dont see there's any visible and feasible upgrade for now.
     
  10. oldyellow

    oldyellow Member

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    Rafer is not too bad, but not good enough to be a PG for a champion.

    If Rafer stays in Rocket, Rocket advances at most to second round of playoffs.
     
  11. Czar

    Czar Member

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    As Clutch said Calderon is a pipedream. You realise he missed 50-40-90 because he didn´t shoot enough freethrows? Also he isn´t included to the list of guards shooting >60% for a month as he didnt take enough shots in February. He had a stretch in April where his A/TO was 72:1!

    Comparing Calderon to shootfirst PG like Mike James is insane.
     
  12. dachuda86

    dachuda86 Member

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    Yeah, Rafer is fine. With Yao back in good health, Battier in better condition and T-mac not limping around as much I don't think there will be much to worry about. With Yao back in as a threat, Rafer and T-mac are going to be better off and this whole Rafer isn't good enough to distract for T-mac argument will be moot. If Yao gets hurt again then we are in trouble. But no one can foresee that.

    It sucks that the failures of this season happened and that I have to blame it on poor health of the team, but I am convinced that is why the team has not lived up to its full potential yet. This team is going to make a serious play off run if they start taking better care of themselves and don't get hurt. Yao is the one to watch though. He works his large body too hard for that Chinese team.
     
  13. across110thstreet

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    would it?


     
  14. sook

    sook Rookie

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    The thing is that rafer doesn't make the plays, the only times he's effective is when he can knock his shots down, tracy makes the plays and its not fair to him that he has to do rafer's job also. Get a GOOD PG who can do that and everyone will shift back to their normal position
     
  15. ansfjs73

    ansfjs73 Member

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    I may sound crazy , but I agreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee..

    One thing that people ignore is that being a great 1On1 defender, he also effects point production of other teams point guard. So in reality his point production is more than what shows up on the stat sheet.

    Look at steve nash ( light years ahead on offense ), but is a liability of defense. If he scores 20, opponents point guards score more than their season average while playing against.

    A simple fact guys, Dareon Williams was not that great while he was defended by Rafer. He lit up the rockets only when Rafer was not in the game.
     
  16. poprocks

    poprocks Member

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    This list has a lot of pt guards that arguably aren't any better than Alston. Alston plays well and we actually kinda stink without Alston running the pt. Who's better than Alston on this list? CP3, Billups, Nash. The rest are a wash. Beno Udrih is good enough that Sacremento said goodbye to the expensive Bibby. Parker - No outside shot either. Kidd - Washed up, Old and also horrible outside shooter. Assist numbers similar to Alstons last year.
     
  17. Clutch

    Clutch Administrator
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    Williams had 28 and 12 in Rafer's first game of the series. Rafer is a better defender than Bobby Jackson at this stage of his career, but JVG will tell you all day: Rafer is a good team defender. He knows where to be, when to switch, when to let guys take their chances on Mutombo/Yao, etc. ... he is not a great one-on-one defender.

    <object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/HwVPZDWlOCA&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/HwVPZDWlOCA&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>
     
  18. Yetti

    Yetti Member

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    DD Even now you don't get it!! After all this time!! Yao and Novac will never be the great assets till we have a playmaking Point Guard who can play the half court game :p
     
  19. hooroo

    hooroo Member

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    To me Dooling is just Bobby Jackson without the outside shooting. Maybe he can be another option at SG behind T-Mac albeit undersized but I don't see him as a solution at PG.
     
  20. MrButtocks

    MrButtocks Member

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    I think Kobe averaged 40 points against Battier last year. That doesn't mean Battier isn't a great man defender as well as a team defender. Rafer is a fine one-on-one defender. Crowing about a big game by Williams, where Rafer was injured, isn't fair. Star players will find ways to be effective.

    At this point, if we want to find a replacement for Rafer we have to take defense into account. It seems that all people are looking for is increased offensive efficiency and that's not enough. We were the second best defense in the league for a reason and Rafer's part of that. Can anyone here make a list of better PG defenders than Alston? I assure you it's a short list.
     

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