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Rafer isn't that bad ?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by DaDakota, May 11, 2008.

  1. SuperMarioBro

    SuperMarioBro Member

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    It doesn't look like you need Insider to see PER stats:

    http://tinyurl.com/3vjspu

    Rafer is unsurprisingly need the very bottom.

    Then NBA.com has EFFiciency ratings, 82games.com has all kindsa stuff (win shares, Roland ratings, Net 100 possessions, etc... some of those are more useful than others.)
     
  2. abc2007

    abc2007 Member

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  3. SuperMarioBro

    SuperMarioBro Member

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    Wow, what a weird typo... I meant to say he is TOWARDS the bottom. I have no idea why I wrote "need".

    Also, I of course mean towards the bottom among starter-caliber PGs... he's still far from the bottom overall.
     
  4. Alvin Choo

    Alvin Choo Member

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    when your starting PG who is playing almost 40 mins, and there are more than half the teams in the league who have PGs better than him, he is bad.
     
  5. Nelly

    Nelly Member

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    Yes, we do need to upgrade our PG position, but what do u guys think is a higher priority for next season? A third scorer/backup wingman to Tmac? A reliable backup center to Yao?

    IMO, upgrading our PG would have to take a backseat to those needs since it is nearly impossible to get a quality starting PG in this league.
     
  6. prv1981

    prv1981 Member

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    I totally agree and posted the same thing in the aaron brooks thread. I think they should put brooks in a position to compete directly with alston for the starting position. Use Bobby Jackson as trade bait.

    Only if there is a legit upgrade available through trade should they make a move. Until then the priorities are as you mentioned above Nelly.

    There will be a few pg possibly moving this offseason and the Rockets might have an opportunity to aquire one of them, but until that happens the priorities stay as stated above. If the Rockets go into next season with the same PG rotation and upgrade backup center and swing position I will thoroughly pleased.
     
  7. abc2007

    abc2007 Member

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    From the below stats, we can clear see that the pg position is the weakest link of the rockets. In fact, only this position has negative value for the net production, and that means our pg position is lower than the average level of the 30 teams. For a playoff team who wants win the title, it is unbearable!
    http://www.82games.com/0708/0708HOU5.HTM

    Team Production by Position
    Position FGA eFG% FTA iFG Reb Ast T/O Blk PF Pts PER*
    PG 18.3 .465 3.1 22% 5.0 7.0 3.0 0.3 3.4 19.4 14.8
    SG 20.6 .459 5.3 27% 6.4 5.9 2.8 0.5 2.8 22.6 17.1
    SF 15.0 .504 3.5 24% 7.6 3.8 2.2 1.2 3.0 17.5 15.8
    PF 13.1 .551 3.7 54% 12.1 2.3 1.9 0.8 5.5 16.8 17.5
    C 14.7 .505 7.0 56% 13.6 2.6 3.2 2.3 5.0 20.5 20.5


    Opponent Production by Position
    Position FGA eFG% FTA iFG Reb Ast T/O Blk PF Pts PER*
    PG 15.8 .473 3.8 23% 4.4 7.7 3.1 0.2 2.5 17.8 15.9
    SG 17.4 .479 4.3 24% 5.2 3.5 2.4 0.5 3.1 19.9 14.7
    SF 16.5 .461 4.5 28% 7.1 3.3 2.2 0.6 3.8 18.7 14.6
    PF 16.6 .441 5.3 34% 11.1 2.5 2.5 1.3 4.5 18.5 15.8
    C 14.1 .474 5.4 47% 12.8 2.0 2.7 2.0 5.7 17.1 16.2


    Net Production by Position
    Position FGA eFG% FTA iFG Reb Ast T/O Blk PF Pts PER*
    PG 2.5 -.008 -0.7 -1% 0.5 -0.8 0.0 0.1 -0.9 1.6 -1.1
    SG 3.2 -.020 1.0 3% 1.2 2.4 -0.4 0.0 0.4 2.7 +2.4
    SF -1.5 +.044 -1.0 -4% 0.4 0.5 0.0 0.6 0.8 -1.2 +1.1
    PF -3.5 +.110 -1.6 20% 1.0 -0.2 0.6 -0.5 -1.0 -1.7 +1.6
    C 0.6 +.032 1.5 9% 0.9 0.6 -0.4 0.3 0.7 3.4 +4.3
     
  8. sook

    sook Rookie

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    THIS IS THE UNDENIABLE EVIDENCE

    During our streak, we saw a different rafer, one that shot a freakishly good % for his standards and we couldn't seem to lose. TEAMS REFUSE to guard him and they are literally taunting him to punish them and most of the time he can't. Now he would be a great backup but what if we had a PG who could do that all the time, or more consistently?
     
  9. Czar

    Czar Member

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    Net Production by Position
    Position FGA eFG% FTA iFG Reb Ast T/O Blk PF Pts PER*
    PG 2.0 +.006 2.5 13% -0.4 0.9 -0.3 -0.1 0.6 3.7 +2.2
    SG 2.2 +.059 1.7 -4% 0.9 1.7 -0.5 0.1 0.1 5.8 +6.5
    SF -3.5 +.013 -2.3 -17% -1.7 -1.1 0.7 -0.2 -0.2 -4.9 -5.4
    PF -4.4 +.051 -2.5 -6% -0.6 -0.1 0.8 -0.1 -1.0 -4.8 -2.3
    C 3.5 +.010 1.3 -1% 2.9 1.4 -0.4 0.1 1.5 4.9 +6.1

    I guess these numbers mean the team can´t win in playoffs then. Too bad for San Antonio.
     
  10. abc2007

    abc2007 Member

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    For a playoff team, the pg position is the most important! If your pg is below the average level, no way to pass the 1st round!

    BTW, the spurs' SF and PF positions are not strong enough, and I think that is the reason why they are stuggled now.

     
  11. Czar

    Czar Member

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    Lakers also have -0,1 from PG which by your standard makes it below average. PER is meaningless stat because it disregards defense almost totally. For example it ranks Shane as 49th best SF...just between Wilson Chandler and Renaldo Balkman.
     
  12. abc2007

    abc2007 Member

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    I don't think it means everything, but it doesn't mean nothing either!

    Some rockets fans complain Shane's offense, and I think there is a reason for that.

     
  13. tonyrock

    tonyrock Rookie

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    Rafer is the only Pg who knows his teammates well
     
  14. Clutch

    Clutch Administrator
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    Future tip: When you're a previously banned member creating a new account like that, you have to start slow -- not make your first post full of BBS history. It outs you when you do that.
     
  15. Clutch

    Clutch Administrator
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    Thanks SuperMarioBro ... I edited the original post to include those rankings.

    Good catch ... I'll have to add his numbers and take out Iverson's I guess.
     
  16. durvasa

    durvasa Member

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    I think Rafer's absence deflated the team, emotionally, in the second half. T-Mac said it himself in the post-game press conference. The Rockets were feeling pretty good heading into halftime. But when they heard that Rafer would miss the rest of the game, it changed things. That was a situation where you needed your best player to raise his game to another level. That's where real competitiveness and desire to win should shine through. Instead, I think the Rockets hung their heads, and their best player lost hope. For all the things I'm proud of about this team, the way it ended without a fight was very discouraging.
     
  17. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    Clutch,

    Those are FANTASTIC stats.....

    And just as a good many of us thought, Rafer is near the bottom in NBA point guards.

    30 out of 33 is HORRIBLE......and the fact that Tracy relies on this guy is one more reason to get him out of the rotation.

    Cut that umbelical, either get a better PG, or start Brooks, the Rockets HAVE to get out of the Rafer Era to get OUT of the first round.

    DD
     
  18. xiki

    xiki Member

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    Clutch, DD et al:

    The Rox won 55 with RA playing gabillions of minutes. The Rox lost 27 with RA playing ginormous minutes. Very much of that was Good Rafer/Bad Rafer. Stats lie with him.

    That said I am 100% down with getting an upgrade, whomever/wherever. I believe Rafe is too deep into his career to develop the consistency to be Good Rafer night in/shot out er, night out.

    I still want one of you, or someone who can, to describe the 'prototypically ideal Rick Adelman Point'. Thank you.
     
  19. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    The Anti Rafer...one that can set up his teamates for easy shots and/or is a good shooter himself...preferably both.

    DD
     
  20. xiki

    xiki Member

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    Perhaps we could 'flesh out the answer a wee bit...?
     

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