Damn, well I was going to post something along the lines of let's move on and maybe Rockets111 never said anything that crazy...but those were some pretty ignorant statements...wow. I guess it's good to have search. Wow, that was a totally pwning...and it was just using his own quotes...that's quite hard to do to someone most of the time. Seriously though, let's move on. It doesn't matter that Rockets111 was wrong, quite wrong in the past on his thought, opinion, predictions, and analysis about Rockets basketball. He's not the only one; he was just quite vocal. It's water under the bridge now. No more Mike James talk because we can't acquire him, so it's as pointless as talking about having Steve Nash. In my opinion, the ONLY issue at hand is how much playing time Rafer should get. This is assuming that the only attainable point guards on the market are Delonte West, Chucky Atkins, and Tyronne Lue and the Rockets aren't going to trade for them. So when the Rockets are fully healthy, how many minutes should Rafer get? Let's take a look at the last 15 games, not including the first Lakers loss where the entire starting lineup sat the 4th, and not including the Charlotte win either because the Rockets blew em out with the starting lineup sitting a lot too, same goes for the Warriors blowout win. So that makes the last 12 competitive games for looking at Rafer's minutes: @ SAS, W 97-78, 35min @ POR, L 87-89, 45min @ LAC, W 108-103, 35min @ LAL, L 101-112, 49min @ GSW, L 107-109, 46min @ WAS, W 114-109, 27min @ MIN, L 84-90, 40min vs CLE, W 81-63, 38min @ PHO, L 91-102, 40min vs MIN, W 82-75, 39min vs MEM, W 85-76, 33min vs WAS, W 86-82, 33min Totals 7 wins, 34.3 minutes per game 5 losses, 44 minutes per game Analysis: This doesn't prove much to me. There were other factors that determined wins and losses, including injuries and what not. It does say ONE THING though, and that is Rafer doesn't have to play 40+ minutes in order for the Rockets to win. I think we all can agree on that. So as of now, Rafer does have an important role on this team and will get big minutes. And when everyone is healthy, should Rafer continue to be a 40+ mpg player or should he be a 30mpg player? Rafer has been finishing inside better, as expected for it didn't make sense for him to continue shooting 30% on his layups like he did the first 15 games of the season. At the same time, Rafer's 3pt shooting has fallen back down to earth, for it was unreasonable to expect him to shoot 40% on 3's. Now I honestly don't think the Rockets are going to play a small backcourt much at all when everyone is healthy because it makes for too much of a height and athleticism disadvantage. Rafer and Luther aren't the quickest guys around...they're just short. So keeping that in mind, how are Rafer's and Luther's and the 3rd pg's (Lucas/VSpan) minutes going to be divided once everyone is healthy? This is where the debate should be. Rafer brings the ball handling and is needed when T-Mac doesn't play. Luther brings the shooting. Rafer can run a fast break better than Luther, but fast breaking is not the modus operandi, the Spurs game being the exception to the rule. Bonzi is going to play. Does that mean Snyder is the odd man out? If Bonzi and Snyder plays, then is Luther the odd man out? Let's take a close look at the minutes. Among the 1, 2, and 3 positions, there is 144 minutes per game. Let's not consider specific game matchups right now. For like if DWade is tearing up one particular player, of course we're gonna try as many different guys as possible on him. Right now, I'm speaking in generalities. 144 minutes per game. Right now, Battier averages 7 minutes per game at the PF position. Keep in mind Hayes has been out for a while, which has upped Battier's PF minutes...so in my opinion, Battier will average about 5 minutes per game at the PF position. Battier is averaging 37mpg right now (a couple of minutes high b/c of injuries to other players, imo). So I think when the team is healthy, Battier is going to average 35mpg, 5mpg at the PF and 30mpg on the wing. So 144-30 leaves us 114mpg left for the 1,2, and 3 when all is healthy. Right now T-Mac is averaging 35mpg. That stat is very deceiving. T-Mac has either played very little (blowouts, injured games: back spasm, Deke's knocked him out) or a lot more than 35mpg in competitive games (most games). From his game logs T-Mac looks like he averages 39mpg in normal games. I wouldn't mind Bonzi taking 2 minutes from T-Mac every game, so imo T-Mac should be about 37mpg when the team is healthy. That leaves us with 114-37= 77 minutes per game to be divided between Bonzi, Rafer, Luther, and Snyder. That's not very many minutes to be going around at all. Is Snyder only going to play when we need his athleticism? But you see, this is why I'm 100% positive that Rafer is not going to play 40+ minutes when the team is healthy. No way at all because that would only leave 37minutes for Bonzi, Luther, and Snyder combined (and let's not forget JL3 or VSpan). Now I don't mind going to an 8 man rotation for the playoffs when every possession is critical, but JVG has made the mistake in the past, in my opinion, of overworking his starters during the regular season and having them burned out for the playoffs (see Sura, Bob). I think it is important to have your bench players get decent minutes in a 9 or 10 man rotation during the regular season, without your starters getting overworked. It gives valuable playing time the bench and lets your starters cut back on wear and tear. So I think Snyder will get minutes. He averaged 21mpg when healthy (didn't count his 3 minute hurt game) and was used very much for matchups, so his minutes were inconsistent. He would play anywhere from 13 to 31 minutes depending on the matchups. I think Snyder should average 11mpg with healthy Rockets team (down 10 minutes). I think Snyder will be making the biggest sacrifice in mpg average because of Bonzi. So 77-11 = 66mpg divided between Rafer, Luther, and Bonzi (and scrubs). You see, this is where it gets dicey. Actually, it got dicey with Snyder. I think Snyder will only play games vs athletic teams (which is about half the games) or games where the starters are totally screwing up, or in blowouts. Because Bonzi is definitely going to get his minutes. He's the only bonafide player other than Yao and T-Mac who can consistently get his own shot. Bonzi is going to get 24mpg. That leaves 42 divided between Rafer and Luther and Lucas/VSpan. 53 minutes if Snyder doesn't play that game. I think in games that Snyder doesn't play, Head is going to get 25 mintues and Rafer is going to get 28 minutes. In games that Snyder does play, he'll steal time from Head and Rafer, so they'll be down to 20 minutes and 22 minutes. But just look at these numbers. I just can't see how it would be possible at all to have Rafer play 40 mpg with a healthy Rockets team. I don't even think he'll play 35mpg. And for you Rafer supporters: should he play 35mpg? Should he play 40mpg? Rafer does good things and bad things, but is he more important than Luther's shooting? Is he more important than Bonzi's scoring and rebounding? Is he more important than Snyder's athleticism and height? I think every player brings good and bad things to the table. It's about finding the best combos and balancing it all. I think Rafer has an important role on this team, but I'm just waiting for someone to tell me I'm wrong and explain to me how Rafer will continue to average 37mpg (his current average) when the team is healthy. I just don't see it. He's only playing 40+ nowadays because of injuries.
hahahahha this thread is hillarious chinese fan feeling frustrated because Clutch mentiones ZhiZhi as an example buahhaahahha dang
Kim, I totally agree with you that once T-Mac and Snyder are back, Rafer will play a lot less. Bonzi is going to get his minutes, unless he has another blowup with the coach. Battier is going to play most of his time at the 3 because JVG has found out he is not any better than Howard at the 4. So T-Mac will get his 30+ minutes at the 2. That leaves very little for Alston, Head, and Snyder. I don't think JVG would sacrifice Head's shooting and Snyder's athleticism and his attack of the basket. I do think that Head should take more minutes at PG when T-Mac is on the floor. Head is not good at initiating the offense. With T-Mac, he doesn't need to. Alston is only good when they need someone other than T-Mac as the playmaker.
Maybe the only thing I can give him credit for in this game is only 5/18 of his shot attemps were from 3-pt range. Maybe, just maybe he's finally realizing he simply isn't a good 3-pt shooter? EDIT: Finished 6/20 shot attempts from 3-pt range.
Nice to see Clutch knows how to use the search button. I'm not sure what those quotes accomplish: So let's see, apparently I pointed out that people were ravishing about Mike James after he put up nice numbers for a losing club. In fact, the club that earned the No. 1 pick in the draft. You can't tell me that the squad James played with was a whole lot more talented that Rafer's squad without Yao and TMac. Yes, I was wrong about Rafer being the fifth option as a shooter. I had no idea Hayes would start over Howard, and I figured TMac would at least be offensively efficient, and that Battier wouldnt be so hit or miss. My bad on that call. I think Rafer is showing last season was an aberration. The Rockets are a better club but Rafer's scoring and shooting is up, and his turnovers are down, although his assists may not be up. Though that's more due to circumstance than his actual own doing. And, yes I was wrong about the 3-point attempts. Although, again, I figured TMac would be healthy, as would Snyder, and I figured the bench would be a lot more productive. I already admitted I was back and forth on the significance of his shooting to team success. How can you argue James is a better rebounder than Alston? Rafer's 3.6 to James' 1.8 should surely be convincing. 2/3 of those quotes are pointless and have no relevance to anything-- particularly the "2006-07 sig". I'm not saying Rafer wouldn't be better off if he was playing 28 mpg instead of 40, I'm just saying he's the best option we have at PG right now. AND, there are greater issues the Rockets have than just the PG position. Like I said before, it's unfair to place all the blame on Rafer when so many others are underachieving.
I don't agree. When we lost that usually means we need our best 5 in the 4th quarter. That's why the minutes increased. I think you can see a pattern for all our best 5. On the contrary, when we win,...
So to be clear (straight up discussion, no attitude from me or anything), you believe that the only way the Rockets can win big, is that when the whole team is healthy, Rafer Alston must play around 40 or more minutes per game? Is that your position? If it is, then I disagree with that. I'm not saying Rafer is worthless or terrible. He has his good and bad traits. I'm just saying in my opinion I think the Rockets are better when Rafer plays only 30 minutes per game or less, because then they will be more fresh and have playing time for Bonzi, Head, and Snyder. Did you read the rest of my post? On a fully healthy Rockets team, if Rafer played 40 minutes per game, that would mean only 37 minutes are left for Bonzi, Head, and Snyder (plus JL3/VSpan) combined. Do you think that is a good idea to do that? If so, why? Should Head play 20 minutes, Bonzi 17 minutes, and Snyder not play at all? Again, all for discussion sake. And Rockets111, it's all good for me man. Everyone is right and wrong about many opinions. And you're right that Rafer is not the only player to shoulder blame when losing. The Rockets have many issues even when healthy, so no they're really in trouble. And yes, Rafer is the best starting point guard the Rockets have right now, but he shouldn't be playing 40mpg. And Chuck Hayes is the best starting PF we have right now, but he shouldn't be playing 40mpg either, and he isn't. Ultimately, it's going to be interesting how rotations work out when T-Mac and Snyder get back, and eventually Yao. The PG upgrades out there are either unattainable, or marginally better. The same goes for PF upgrades. Our entire roster is made up of individuals who have strengths and weaknesses, even Yao and T-Mac suffer from this, but their strengths are just much stronger than most others. Personally, I'd still trade Rafer for Lue straight up. Same goes for Derek Fisher. It's just a matter of shooting for me. Battier and T-Mac are excellent entry passers, but JVG likes to keep Battier at the top of the 3pt line for transition defense purposes. He's normally a terrible shooter from up there, this last game was an exception. While Rafer is definitely improving his inside finishing skills, his 3pt shot is reclining back to normal. Just for me personally, I really think it's more important to have a great shooting PG, and Lue fits that bill. If the PG defender is going to sag on you to prevent the Yao entry pass, then one option is to shoot the wide open 3. If you have a PG who can hit the wide open 3 like at a 40% or higher clip, then I'll take that shot everyday of the week. And once you establish that, the PG defender won't sag anymore and make the entry pass easier. I think Lue can shoot and handle the ball and pass decently for a point guard. I don't think the Rockets need Lue, but for me, it would be at least a marginal improvement. Just my opinion.
Kim, I agree that the most important skill our PG needs is shooting. What's wrong with having Head play full-time at PG with Alston backing him up?
I suggested this a long time ago. But, I think with Yao out that role is different now...we need someone who can penetrate. DD
Kim is talking about "when everybody is healthy." I am saying that when everybody is healthy, Head should start and play like 25+ minutes of PG. Alston is the primary backup and some spot minutes for Spanoulis and Lucas. Wells come off the bench to backup up both the 2 and the 3, while Snyder backs up the 2. With Yao in the middle, you need at least 2 reliable 3pt shooters and a good penetrator who can finish on the floor. Unfortunately, T-Mac is no longer a reliable 3pt threat. So I'd rather have Head and Battier as the spot up shooters and T-Mac as the penetrator. That lineup should play together at least half of the time on the floor.
They'd be better off than with Rafer, and so would we. That's why the Rockets tried to replace him with James last offseason. Enjoy Rafer the crazy shot taker. As far as comparing the two, it's not even close, and it's not worth talking about now because the Rockets season is pretty much ruined anyway. Maybe we can get him cheap next year and be rid of Rafe once and for all.
