Rafer Alston can't compare to Francis in one single facet of basketball, except in amount of turnovers. Francis is better by a wide margin at virtually anything and everything done on the court. To me some might as well say hey, Mutombo should start over Yao.
Your right, it should be all people instead of just a number of people. Francis sucks and at PG he sucks real hard. He might be the worst decision maker I have ever seen at that spot.
Don't look down, your Rafer is showing. Let's have a look at your rationale ...or irrationale. Hit a shot: Already acknowledged. Play defense: DEBUNKED. Ranks #9 in the NBA in steals. Slash to the basket He's actually pretty good "slashing" to the basket. Finish at the basket Okay, Rafer can't finish a layup to save his life, granted. Be able to hit free throws Shot 73% last year. That's average ...not worth calling him out on that. Stop shooting so ****ing much and realize he is a point guard JVG was often quoted as saying we are a 3pt shooting team. Do you honestly beleive JVG was letting Rafer "run wild." C'mon. Really? JVG? Put up better assist numbers Kidding me? Your just being irrational. Rafer's the best assist PG we've had in Houston in probably decades. Be able to run a fast break consistently yea, cause JVG was always about uptempo basketball. Besides, who running w/ Rafer? Tmac? I've never seen anybody lolligag as much as TMac. Yao? Battier ain't no Mr. Fastbreak. All my comments are in the context of Aaron Brooks, btw. If faced with the scenario, who would you rather start if we had injuries? Aaron Brooks or Rafer?
The way Alston played was a result of team philosophy. We knew Rockets were not going to be fast breaking since the beginning of training camp, when JVG put up a banner spelling out one of the ways he wanted to play was to "Gang Rebound." Gang rebound means the guards stay back on missed shots to rebound rather than releasing for fast breaks.
Krosfyah, thanks for debunking some Rafer myths. He is a servicable PG with some strengths. People act like he doesn't belong in the NBA because his mind range game and finishing is terrible. There are far worse flaws for a PG--and Francis has some of those flaws (undisicplined and TO prone). Of course there have been a few true impact rookie PGs who were late 1st rounder to undrafted. Arenas, Cassell, Parker, Bobby Jackson, Fisher, Chucky Atkins, NVE, etc. That said just a contributing rook PG from this part of the draft isn't that rare... Even last year look at all these contributing rotation PGs: Gibson (2nd rounder) Rondo (late 1st) Williams (late 1st) Lowry (late 1st) Farmar (late 1st) Year before: Robinson (late 1st) Jack (late 1st) Calderon (undrafted?) Stoudamire (2nd) Ellis (2nd) I like Brooks' chances as well as any of these guys, Brooks had a better summer performance. All I would hope for is a good 15 minutes, that is all we would need from him even if his sole job was backing up James.
Apples to oranges or AND1 player to real NBA player. Steve was talking about dunking to get on Sportscenter. When do you see 3 point shooting getting on SC unless it is a buzzer beater? Let's go over stats for the last 5 years. 3 pt fg/att/pct. Rafer = 51 out of 130 for .392, 161 out of 434 for .371, 139 out of 389 for .357, 102 out of 312 for .327, 192 out of 529 for .363 Totals: 645 out of 1,794 for .360 Steve = 85 out of 240 for .354, 73 out of 250 for .292, 38 out of 127 for .299, 25 out of 83 for .301, 42 out of 111 for .378 Totals: 263 out of 811 for .324 No question that Rafer has a better shooting percentage from the 3 pointer, but Rafer shot over twice as many shots as Steve in a 5 year period. You probably think it is because Steve was on the bench so much with the Knicks, but the most 3 point shot attempts ever by Steve was 336 in 2000/2001 with the Rockets where I might add that his accuracy increased at .396% I don't have time to break down regular fg% without 3 pt shots included, but let me tell you that the highest percentage for Rafer was as a scrub with Toronto in 2002/2003 when it was .415% but he only played in 47 games and only started 4. He took 335 shots that year and made 139. Rafer is a career .384% shooter. Steve has never average in the .300% for his whole career. His lowest fg % is .403 but his career avg is .423% Rafer's career asst avg is a pathetic 4.8 with a career total of 2,228. Steve's career asst avg is a respectable 6.1 with a career total of 3,443. Rafer's career t/o rate is a very respectable 1.71 per game with a total of 800. Steve is a poor 3.56 per game with a career total of 2,016 BUT........Rafer has not played the minutes Steve has. Rafer has played a total of 468 games, started 264, playing a total of 12,998 minutes. Steve has played 566 games, started 540, playing a total of 21,434 minutes. Again, your comparisons are apples to oranges or AND1 player to real NBA player. BTW, if you want to tell me next that Steve has played more games, games started, and playing minutes because he has played longer than Rafer, they both started their playing careers in 1999.
Throw in Baron Davis's 3 point stats there and ya have no argument. Everyone here would take Baron in a second and Baron shoots a horrible 3 ball.
Thanks. But notice I'm not comparing Rafer to Steve. I'm comparing him to Aaron Brooks, who many around here seem to think Brooks is already better than Rafer. WRONG. Thanks for throwing a couple names out there. So lets look at Sam Cassel's rookie season (since we're all a little biased around here) vs. Rafer last year as a yardstick for Aaron Brooks. Cassel 93'-94': 9.4 ppg. 4.2 apg. .9 spg. 2.14 TO. Rafer 06'-07': 13.3 ppg. 5.4 apg. 1.6 spg. 2.07 TO. Statistically better in EVERY category. AND ...it took Cassel until his 5th year in the league before he surpassed Rafer in any ONE of those cateogries. Mind you, once Cassel passed Rafer's PPG totals, his TO's also surpassed Rafer's. so... We could only dream that Aaron Brooks will be able to hold a candle to Cassel one day, but you are a fool to think your team is better off with a rookie PG over Rafer Alston ...esp if you had to chose one as a starter if we have injuries (ahem...Steve).
The Rafer ridiculousness continues....... -->Stop shooting so ****ing much and realize he is a point guard 1. JVG, on radio spots, made it clear that Rafer was shooting because that was JVG's gameplan. Not because Rafer is Antoine Walker. 2. Both Steve and Mike have reps for breaking plays to look for their own shot. -->Rafer's career asst avg is a pathetic 4.8...Steve's career asst avg is a respectable 6.1 1. As mentioned, this is not a fair comparison, largely because of minutes. Rafer's tenure in Milwaukee was spend nailed to the bench behind a career-peaking Cassell. 2. Rafer assists per 40 minutes: 6.9, Steve: 6.4, James: 6.0. 3. Rafer FG attempts/assists avg: 1.9, Steve: 2.4, Mike: 2.4. -->Rafer Alston can't compare to Francis in one single facet of basketball, except in amount of turnovers. 1. Steve averages more than double Rafer's (or Mike's) TO. 2. Per 40: Rafer 2.4, Steve 3.8, Mike 2.6 3. Assist/TO ratio; IMO the most important stat for Pgs: Rafer 2.8, Steve 1.7, Mike 2.4. Rafer's worst season A/T: 2.2, Steve's best season: 2.0. -->Rafer's shooting woes: common knowledge, no one's arguing. But rein in his FGAs, which isn't so unreasonable if the team has more offensive weapons, and he's not such a bad reserve backup. As far as this BBS is concerned, Rafer is an even worse liability and cancer than David Carr. But as fair as it is to say that he's a terrible 3rd scoring option, it is fair to say that he is a good ball handler and handled his point guard-specific duties well, shooting aside. I'm not advocating Rafer to remain our starting 1, I'm not even saying we're in trouble if he's moved. But it's unfortunate that so many posters just trash him with merit-less garbage. The man is as good as gone, just let him go...unlike V-Span, he doesn't deserve half the hate.... Evan
My bad. I thought you were responding to claims impling Francis does everything better than Rafer except Steve's incidental TO issue. I am a little confused here? Whether Rafer stays or not, the starter would be James. We would only need Brooks or Francis (or Head in a pinch paired with Tmac) to cover the back-up minutes. Yes James could get injured, but based on recent history injuries to Yao and Tmac would be more likely. I am not saying Alston could not contribute, and be really valuable if we lost James, but relative to the risks and lack of alternatives if we lose Yao, Tmac, Scola or even Hayes, we have good options even if Alston is gone and we sustain injuries. I'd take James/Brooks/Head to take on the PG rotation (assuming an injury to Francis) over any rotation we can scramble together at the PF and C losing Yao or Scola. Also, without putting up FG%, FT%, PPS or TS%, etc, you are not doing Cassell justice or major elements critical in evaluating Alston. These are major weakness of Rafer, well with the exception of FT%, though he is still quite a bit lower than James in this department as well. Also, I am not arguing Brooks numbers will be anywhere near Rafer's (though I would not be surprised if he can be higher in shooting efficiency). But I put some names to suggest that thinking their is a good chance that Brooks can give you 10-15 solid minutes is not that far fetched. Based on his draft status the record for contributing PGs is not bad (just look in the last 2 considered less deep drafts), and his summer league play only further helps things. Thus one major question is whether it is worthwhile for salary and chemistry reasons to keep Rafer because he might be a little better for 20 or so backup minutes over Francis and Brooks. The next question is can trading Rafer lead to better depth at positions where, 1) we have a bunch of unknowns given we don't have a proven high minute NBA PF, and 2), where an injury to Yao, Scola or even Hayes kills us. To conclude, Rafer can play in this league. But we are overloaded in smallish guards and are really unproven in our bigs with the exception of Yao and even with Yao we are "shallow" there. If Rafer brings a comparable asset in a more needed position, we should do it, there is a salary cap and limited resources at the end of the day.
Indeed at the risk of being labeled as a "lover" of either of our scapegoats, I gotta say that yall are doing a good job of keeping the discussion real. I agree that he is a luxury that we should be looking to move for big help. I also agree that he is given far more hatred than he deserves. based solely on my feeling watching Brooks play, I do feel he will surprise with how effective he will be this year...so between James, Francis, Head, and Brooks I really think we are covered at the point.
You can remove Luther from that equation. Adelman has no reason to give him minutes at PG except in blowouts.
Don't forget that Rafer's per 40 min stats will increase scoringwise under any other NBA coach besides Van Gundy's.
Brooks vs Rafer...meh! Bout the same. Rafer vs Brooks Salarywise? Brooks hands down. But there is nothing we can do here is there? A trade will net us equal salary for equal salary. We need an expiring contract to trade Rafer's salary out don't we to get us under the cap?
Your basis for thinking that James will be a starter? Steve will be the starter because James is better suited coming off the bench to provide instant offense.
Because James has been better and healtheir the last 2 years, and is a more natural point guard. James is actually much more disciplined (in relative terms, since the alternative is Francis as a TO prone PG), at least as good of off the ball shooter, and a better 1 on 1 defender against quick 1 guards. Further, Francis does best with lots of freedom and not saddled with traditional PG duties. He should be the instant offense and playmaker off the bench, and play maybe as much SG as PG and spell Tmac a lot.
So from that article, I assume that the Free Throw to Assist ratio would be a better indicator of how a pt. guard i doing his job. Plus Free throw to Turnover Ratio cause free throws are an indication of how well a guard penetrates into the lane and either scores or dishes off thus doing his job.
