Rafael Palmeiro suspended 10 games

I think if you're caught cheating at any point, fans should question your numbers your whole career. If all fans did as you suggest, what penalty is there for an older player using steroids? If you're at the tail end of your career, and your past is not going to be questioned, what incentive is there to not use steroids and prolong your career? A 10 game suspension? Who cares - you were going to stink up the field otherwise anyway.

 

fans will undoubtedly question rafael's numbers.

but do you think it should bar him from the HOF??

 

I think it should be treated the same - if he's caught, then it should put his numbers in doubt. I don't think that just because standards were lower in the past, standards have to be low now - there's nothing wrong with raising the bar now.

Doing anything less, to me, creates less disincentive to cheat. It's the equivalent of saying its OK to cheat as long as you don't get caught, and even if you do, we'll just assume it was a one-time thing and not really question if you were that good. I think that's just the wrong attitude to have.

 

I agree with both those statements to an extent. However, if we're talking about direct impact on a game, I think corking and doctoring are just as bad as steroids, mainly because steroids won't make the change by themselves. It still takes work from those taking the drugs to get the effect.

I am completely in favor of testing to discover who is taking steroids just like I'm in favor of a manager asking an ump to take a look at a ball to see if a player's scuffed it. However, as far as which one makes the game less pure, I'm gonna have to say they're all really close. And I'm gonna have to say I really don't care.

 

i disagree. because i don't know if palmeiro was cheating BEFORE. you know..when he was getting 3000 hits and 500+ homers. i don't know. and i can't strip a man's career accomplishments away based on my own suspicions. i just can't.

now they're policiing this stuff...that's a good thing. but as stark says, unless your solution for figuring all this stuff out involves a drug tests with a time machine, then you are "convicting" guys of crimes you can't prove they committed. palmeiro tested positive in 2005. take away ALL of his 2005 stats if you want. but his positive test in 2005, barring some other evidence, doesn't strip away the man's career. it just doesn't.

 

I think that's something the hall needs to decide - what exactly they want to reward. I recognize in the past they allowed known cheaters in, but I would like it if they said they only wanted players who adhered to the highest ethics within the game, or something like that.

Having better numbers because you did things that other players did not do out of ethical values or willingness to "play fair" or what not doesn't make someone a better player in my opinion, and I don't think they should get rewarded for it.

But whether he should get into the Hall depends on what the Hall wants, I think. I don't know enough about their past and current standards to really say.

 

ok...not sure we're in disagreement then. because the article i posted from stark relates ENTIRELY to whether or not he's in the Hall. not to whether or not his stats will be questioned...because they undoubtedly will be questioned by fans.

 

I don't think it matters, personally. To me, if you cheat, you lost your credibility - your career is tainted, past and present. He had the choice not to use steroids in the present. When he made the choice to cheat, in my mind, he accepts that his entire past could and would be tainted if he got caught.

Now, all this said, I really wish they would state what exactly he got caught doing, and that he'd explain his side of it. I think the whole "we don't discuss specifics" just makes things worse. For all we know, it really was some freak supplement that had a trace of something bad in it.

 

Yeah, I got onto a sidetrack in terms of what I generally think of a player's career. To me, Sammy's numbers got questioned when he corked his bat. Does he use a corked bat all the time? I'm sure he doesn't. But the fact that he was willing to cheat when necessary makes me think less highly of him. Same thing here. I wasn't really thinking of the specifics of the Hall of Fame and how it is - but if I were running the Hall, I would change the standards and not want him in there.

 

Whoops - the "him" in the last sentence refers to the general person found significantly cheating... not Sosa or Palmeiro in particular.

 

I got a question....

Which is worse...an MLB player using steroids or an MLB player betting on baseball games?

 

If it's just the betting, I'd say the steroids.. but the betting comes with a host of other problems. Is the player betting on his own games, and if so, is he intentionally changing his performance (if he's betting against his team)? Does he have friends on the teams involved, and is he getting them to change their performance? Those things, to me, are what make betting on a game from within the system a serious concern.

 

True, but let me make some leaps of faith here, Congress has instant impact. As evidence by Baseball's immediacy in altering it's drug testing policy. If any kind cheating gets into the public eye it tarnishes the image of the game. Something baseball has proven time and time again it is willing to protect at all costs. Proven again when they toughened their stance to appease congress on Steroid use. So I think its reasonable to assume that the HOF will take these things into consideration. They've done it before with gambling. There are levels of cheating, and those that tarnish the image of the game in the public eye are considered of high import. Therefor, I would attest that Congress has elevated the seriousness of steroid use far and above that compared to scuffing the ball. So I think it has instant impact on the Hall of Fame.

 

i think we're all blowing this up way too much. i think the media has blown all this up way too much.

beyond that...judging by what most HOF voters are saying TODAY...just ONE DAY after the incident went down...i'm betting that Palmerio has no problem getting into the HOF. i don't think he's a first ballot guy at this point...but he'll get in.

 

i love it how 2-3 weeks ago when palmeiro got his 3000 hits everyone couldn't wait to jump on his 'the guy's a first ballot HoFer' nuts. and now, after all this, they hop right off, take back their words and actually question his credentials. the media can sure burn you

 

A distinction should be made between trying to enhance your performance and gambling. Not even on the same level. Gambling brings on a whole slew of problems like the perception someone may be throwing games. The two things aren't even in the same league.

 

Ouch, I really feel bad for Ryan because he was certainly more "on the bubble" fpr the HOF than Rafael.

These elite pro athletes need to start considering their legacies...

 

I don't like the 10-game suspension policy. It should be a lifetime ban like Pete Rose got. If you are caught cheating once, then you have most likely gotten away with cheating quite a bit. You have thrown the integrity of the game into question, and I don think that should be tolerated. Get the cheaters out of baseball, and let the game be played on the level.

 

I don't mind an incremental policy. People **** up. Shoot, people will sabotage you too. So I'm ok with that as long as on the third strike you're done.

Anybody find it strange you never hear of anyone in rehab for cocaine anymore? Did Baseball fix the problem or is it under the rug?