All Bonds has to do is not use steroids. Palmiero was stupid, he's already a HOF. Bonds can reach Ruth without steroids now. You're writing like he doesn't have a choice.
i'm not encouraging it. and i wouldn't tell my kids to cheat. but in MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL, that has been modus operandi for well over 100 years now. the notion that the hall of fame in baseball is pure and that we must protect that purity from this generation of sluggers is ridiculous to me. it's not pure. it never was. it's a faulty assumption.
Sure, we all knew that steroid use was going on in baseball. Maybe even rampant. We probably all figured that just by the odds a few players would get caught when they implemented a credible testing system. But I have to say I'm a bit surprised that Rafael Palmeiro would have been stupid enough to risk his career and hall of fame chances by continuing to do steroids this season, after the testing was put into place, because he could have easily coasted to the Hall based on his numbers produced before this season. By continuing to do them, he's going to have such a stigma attached to not just this season but to his entire career, especially after his hypocricy at the Congressional hearings.
Of course Bonds has the choice to return and not use steroids, he was an awesome player with Pittsburg when he was a stick figure, even before all of the “flax-seed oil,” and “clear cream,” and he could easily pass Ruth and possibly Aaron. I just think that he has milked a very common and easy surgery, hoping that the dark cloud of steroids would pass over. Now that dark cloud is back and it's not over some no-namer that plays for the Marlins, it's someone that has left his mark on the game (Palmiero). And I feel that is going to make Bonds continue to re-think his situation as to when, or if, he will return.
I saw this at lunch (Hooters) and ESPN said it was steroids, but hell who knows...Probably viagra and supplements, but maybe not...Anywho, he's still in the HOF...
Damn, I just picked up Giambi to replace Hunter. I had been thinking about getting him all month when I noticed how well he was doing, but didn't really have a roster spot for him. I joked to my brother than a new masking agent must be out. Something tells me Giambi is going down next, but then again, maybe he's already had his surprise tests or whatever.
Side note: Can we spell the man's name right? Poor Raffayeyell Pelmayeroh. It doesn't matter -- to the fans it always was. So even if many of the past players robbed, gambled, or Kobe-ed some teenager, most fans didn't know much about it or it didn't overshadow their playing accomplishments. Media no doubt has a lot to do with it in this day in age, but hell yeah you can expect a lot of fans to not support Hall of Fame bids when they now know that some of these players were using illegal substances to boost the credentials that suggest they are Hall-worthy in the first place.
Don't think about purity. Just put their stats up against guys from other eras who weren't on roids, and they naturally don't look as good. That leaves them out of the HOF. For example, one of the arguments for Palmeiro was 500+ HRs. Well suddenly that's been proven to be a joke, therefore it's not a big accomplishment anymore. He's out.
How are steroids fundamentally different from amphetamines (openly used in clubhouses & dispensed by team physicians)?
Taken from New York Times http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/01/s...&en=72da5db7467b89a0&ei=5094&partner=homepage Palmeiro has been in the major leagues for 19 years. He would become eligible for the Hall of Fame five years after his retirement, but even before today there were some who argued that he has not been a dominant player, never having led the league in major categories or won a Most Valuable Player award. Last month, he modestly said he might not belong in the same class as Mays, Aaron and Murray. "I'm in a group with them, but that doesn't mean I belong with them," Palmeiro said. "Aaron has 200 more home runs than I do and Mays has about 100 more. In my opinion, those guys belong in a class by themselves, and I shouldn't be anywhere close to that." After his 3,000 hit, he was asked how he would like to be remembered. He answered this way: "As somebody who played the game the right way, who respected the game, respected the history of the game and the players who came before me."
when you say put "their" stats up...who do you mean specifically? guys who tested positive for steroids?? guys you believe did steroids??? who? and if you're going to "convict" people of this without any proof...then how do you know that people from other eras were NOT using some form of steroids as they existed prevously?? how do you know that prior players didn't cheat in other ways which had dramatic effects on their stats relative to their own eras?? bottom line...you dont know. none of us do. none of us know how many homers barry would have hit had he not juiced...assuming, of course, that he did. what about bagwell? i have no idea if he juiced or not. but because he played at the time when there was the spectre of juicing, i'm not gonna say the guy should be excluded from the Hall of Fame because he MIGHT have done it because someone else did. as for palmeiro...the guy finishes his career with 3000 hits. i'm sorry, but i can't discount that. partially because i have no idea of the true impact of steroids from game to game..or even season to season..in terms of production. partially because to get 3000 hits in a career, you have to be a helluva hitter. baseball players have ALWAYS cheated like crazy. keep these guys out and you need to throw out half the Hall, if not more.
Palmeiro and anyone else proven to be a user. For starters, because they looked like normal-sized humans. I don't, but they weren't caught. Palmeiro was. Had he not been on steroids, his career could have ended before 3,000. You don't think roiding up increased his longevity? Wait, let me guess, "you don't know". Of course. Throw out half the Hall? I thought you didn't know if guys were cheating or not? Now you know it's more than half the Hall? I don't think keeping a proven user of illegal performance-enhancing substances out of the HOF means you need to throw out more than half of the other guys, sorry. Even if they used too much pine tar or scuffed a ball, things which you seem to put on the same plane as steroids.
ok, then i misunderstood you. you said "their" stats. i assumed that meant anyone with eye-popping stats from this era. if you're just talking about guys with positive tests, that's a whole other matter. i wouldn't have a problem with that.
He's already put out a statement basically like his testimony. He didn't intentionally take them. Apparently MLB kept this under cover for a while. An independent arbitrator has already ruled that the suspension stands.
I would tell that to my kids. Why did he do it, because of the payoff of doing it. Same reason kids cheat in school to stay eligible for sports, there is a payoff. Does that make it right, no. But that happens to be the way our society works and the temptation is too much for some. I prefer to educate my children on both the good and evil of the world so they know the difference between the two. I don't try to have them grow up in some sort of suburban bubble that looks like Pleasantville.
Some snippets from CBS Sportsline: http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/story/8695587 <I>On July 15, Palmeiro joined Hank Aaron, Willie Mays and Eddie Murray as the only players with 3,000 hits and 500 homers. Baseball would not say when the positive test occurred. The players association challenged the suspension, which was secretly assessed by the commissioner's office earlier this year but held in abeyance until arbitrator Shyam Das decided Monday not to overturn it. During a telephone conference call, the four-time All-Star said he never intentionally took steroids and left the impression that the banned substance was contained in a supplement that was not prescribed. He said it was an "embarrassing situation" and that he still did not know what caused the positive test. "Why would I do this in a year when I went in front of Congress and I testified and I told the truth?" he said. "Why would I do this during a season where I was going to get to 3,000 hits? It just makes no sense. I would not put my career on the line. I would not put my reputation on the line, everything that I've accomplished throughout my career. I would not do that. I'm not a crazy person." Palmeiro will lose $163,934 of his $3 million salary during the suspension. Because the penalty was delayed, it meant baseball's arbitration panel -- which includes Das, a management representative and a union representative -- initially found there was a "reasonable basis" for the challenge. "The evidence in this record is not sufficient for the player to meet his burden of establishing that his positive test result was not due to his fault or negligence," the panel said in a statement released by the union. The panel also said "our decision does not equate to a finding or belief that Rafael Palmeiro -- whose testimony in many respects was quite compelling -- was untruthful in his testimony." </I>
So Max, You see nothing wrong with the state of baseball right now? Since players from other years have been caught cheating, gambling, spitballs-scuffed baseballs, corked bats...etc, it is ok for players today to take performance enhancing drugs? to inflate their statistics and allow them to have productive numbers for a longer period of time. It sounds to me like you are almost ashamed of the modern players and the ridiculous numbers they are racking up. Todays players have everything they need to make themselves the best player they can possibly be. Weight rooms everywhere, coaching everywhere you turn, bats made from the best wood on the planet, gloves 3-times the size of the ones used 30 years ago (I still marvel at how a player drops a ball with those things), Hitter friendly ballparks, Knowledge of what foods to eat to get the most out of your body, I could go on and on as to the spoils that today's player has. But it's not enough for some players. They feel the need to take performance enhancing drugs to make them even better than they already are. This is not only cheating the game, it's cheating the fans, the players who came before them, but most of all they are cheating themselves. I blame the players, but Bud Selig is the real crook here. He sat by while players were getting so big they couldn't tie their own shoes, yet he did nothing. Baseball was making a fortune with all these astounding numbers were being put up. It's a shame some really good players will be forever linked to this "Roid" era of baseball.
