Many studies have shown that environment and socialization plays a much larger factor in academic performance. A big misconception among people in America is that Asians are somehow genetically superior because of the amount of success that they've displayed in academics and science fields the problem with that is that most Asians here are a self-selected immigrant group of educated people with a high drive to succeed. Prior to the Civil Rights movement most Chinese and Japanese were stuck in isolated Chinatowns or farming communities and were denied both academic and career opportunities. For most of US history the stereotype of Chinese wasn't as a hardworking morally uptight nerd but instead slothful decadent and corrupt. Groups like African Americans and Native Americans also weren't a self selected group but groups whose apirations have largely been degraded by being brought over and kept as slaves and then later second class citizens or having their homeland and culture destroyed. From what I know about the achievement gaps regarding Blacks and Natives has a lot to do with not only being denied opportunity but internalizing oppression. Many black teens criticize other blacks who become too educated. They're called "Uncle Toms" for buying into the path to success of white culture. On the reservations there's been the same problem with many Natives being suspicious of education since it wasn't that long ago that Native children were taken away and sent to schools to wipe out Native culture.
Racism is a big issue in the Asian community also and many Asians are suspicious of White America. Last year I was on a panel here in the Twin Cities to talk about issues affecting Asian males and I was heavily criticized by the audience of primarily Asian audience for saying that I didn't think racism was that big of an issue and that I had more in common with Whites who grew up in middle-class America than I do with Vietnamese and Hmong refugees. Asians also have a problem with racist attitudes towards other races. A lot of this has to do with chauvinistic and xenophobic attitudes from Asia, Chinese are always worried about the foreign barbarians invading the Middle Kingdom, but also that many Asians both here and in Asia have bought into American stereotypes about Blacks and Hispanics.
No argument here, I just wish I could explain it in a way that is in line with the eloquency of your post. Here's my humble attempt. Let me preface by saying that I can only speak for me. Since I was a kid I was led to believe that I was inferior to white people. Sayings like "you've got to be twice as good (as white people), with half the opportunity" were prevalent in school (black teachers), and at home. My parents lived through "Jim Crow" and shared stories with me about segregation, police prejudice, unfair labor practices, and violent white on black behavior. My Great grandfather was hanged in Louisiana and the killers were never found, throughout my childhood his story was told and re-told with white bigots as the suspected culprits. As a part of my upbringing I was also led to believe that there were "good white people" too, and these people were represented by my Dad's insurance guy, my 5th grade teacher and my mom's employer who provided the reference for my parents to buy their first home. Even in church as we worshipped in an old broken down building, I couldn't help but wonder why I never saw any black people walk out of the nicer churches, just churches like mine. The Ministers would try to instill in us that we were just as good as everyone else (white people), but had to work harder to prove it. I never got a chance to formulate a personal opinion on race until I got to UH (University Park). Amil Stafford was a guy in my speech class who genuinely befriended me; although it took me a while to accept the fact that a white person wanted to be my friend. I had nothing to offer, wasn't special in any way, and there were plenty of white guys to go around. Amil more than anything or anyone else helped me to get a grasp on my self worth within society because when I hung out with him I was just a guy, not a race. I still struggle with inferiority and as a comic, sometimes I write material that is racially motivated because it is a way to bring my personal drama within society to the stage. Comics write about what’s true to them, and if any are like me they get some solace in poking fun at an institution that had long been an adversary to our race. I'm mature enough to know that everyone out there doesn't have my best interest at heart, but I believe in a God that affords me the reassurance that "good white people" are more the rule than the exception.
Another Brother: That's very interesting. Looking back, I wasn't even aware of race as anything important until a 3rd grade discussion following some racist comment that was written on the bathroom walls. I knew that people had different skin color, it just didn't seem important in any way. I later learned that my wife had almost the exact same experience. Our parents are all academics of different levels. Surprisingly, I later learned that my grandmother is racist in an old Southern elite sort of way. She holds very condescending but superficially beneficent attitudes to minorities - sort of like they're like your poor r****ded brother who shouldn't be blamed for his own infirmity. I was shocked when I discovered this - and it wasn't until I was in high school. So, to me - I think race became something that shouldn't matter - but was insidious and hidden. For me, the best way to eliminate is to pretend it doesn't exists - because if we all do - ultimately, it won't any longer. Retrospectively, I still think my parents were right to simply make it a non-issue for me during my childhood. Your experiences have led you to different conclusions, I see...
I heard that Thurgood Marshall felt the same way and as a lawyer always tried to be impeccable in his grooming and punctuality in addition to perfecting his legal arguments. He was taught that he had to be a lot better than White lawyers in every aspect or else judges would dismiss his arguments out of hand.
Yes it can. Though I don't know what you are talking about with an emphasis on sports. Are speaking strictly about in the U.S.?
amen, brother.. Alot of ethnic groups have been subject to racism, but it seems like just the black race, seems to make a big deal about it. they use that excuse to blame all the failures(jobs, education) and problems in their lives( drugs and crime). The jewish people were victims of racism to the highest kind back then and even today. But you don't see jews whining and complaing "the man" is holding them down. They have reached such great heights due to hard work and discipline. Japanese people were victims of "yellow fever" back in the 50's, but that didn't stop them making their mark in America. I can go on and on and give examples of Arabs in America being victims of racism and prejudice, but I understand now you do get the point. Black people need to stop blaming others for so called injustices, and look inwards and see what they are truly lacking to make an impact in society today.
we use racism to blame all the failures (jobs, education)? What about the blacks that are fired by black employers? where does the blame lie? "so called" injustices? ever heard of james byrd? so blacks don't make an impact in society, huh? You are the reason why some blacks can claim all of the things that you mentioned. Your post is EXACTLY what fuels the division between blacks and the rest of society. I spent an hour on a post to try and explain why one black man views society with skepticism, and your few lines have provided the example of what makes us so angry. What a racist *******.
man i was going to speak on something completely different then i started remembering some of the stuff from my african american studies class (yes i am a white guy who took it out of curiousity). quite frankly, he does have a point, but he is way overgeneralizing. he is more a victim of over stereotyping rather than being racist. i dunno if you have taken an african american studies class before AB but the stuff in there is relatively backward looking and there is an aspect of placing blame rather than accepting the situation and working through it. i don't know if i am explaining myself very well because this is a complete tangent and i am in a hurry right now but his point is valid. obviously, black "intellectuals" in african american studies (i put that in quotes because some of these people seem to think pretty highly of themselves) do not represent everyone that is an american born black person but their rhetoric is strikingly similar to what mr brightside said. honestly, i was pretty surprised when i took the class. further it is these people that are often the figureheads who speak on TV and in the media about issues of race which seems to promote this idea of blaming their situation on other things more than accepting the situation and dealing with it. i hate talking about stuff like this without clearly substaniating my ideas, but there is an author named john mcwhorter who has wrote a couple books on this and he puts forth things i'm trying to say pretty well. he does go a bit over the top but you can get thru those things to get the idea of what he is saying. anyhow...gotta go
I like it much better when people are honest about their racism. One thing I disliked about the liberal "PC" movement in the 90's, while it did help to make some understand why hateful language and actions hurt, it made many hide their racist attitudes and adopt this innocent perspective. I say if you're a racist, don't try to cover it up and act like you're not, if you think other races are inferior or are all defined in your way, just act like it, don't let the social stigma of being a racist stop you. Just like the new agenda today regarding "Patriotism," there's this excess need to be "patriotic" although many people do not fit the conservative idea of what a "patriot" is. I say, if you're not patriotic, don't try to be patriotic. Likewise, if you're a racist, then be a racist, don't hide, you're only hurting yourself. I don't think mr. brightside is an idiot, I think he's just being honest with his opinion (emphasis), and I'd rather have him be honest than try to act like he's awesome just because he says "hi" to the black guy in his office. If you're not honest, you will never know how people will react to the real you.
Actually one could argue that the people who constantly bring up the isolated backwoods incident with James Byrd are doing more to damage race relations than the men that actually killed him.
Mr. Brightside... you sir are a racist. I will agree with you that the Black race needs to be proactive in improving their lives, rather than blaming others. That is a valid point. However, that is all that you have to say that has a shred of validity. If you think that Black people are "lacking" and have not "made their mark on America", then it is not the Black people that are lacking an education, but rather it is you and the people who dismally failed at educating you. Maybe you are in 9th grade or something and haven't been exposed to history, and if that is the case, I won't fault you for your ignorance. A lot of Black people today whine, b****, and complain. If you are a Black youth today, you have no business whining and b****ing because the people who preceded you made sacrifices, took a stand, and fought to level the playing field for you today (believe it or not, some of those people that took a stand were actually Black). However, if you are someone from my generation or before, you can b**** and you can whine because "the man" did keep you down. When I was voting in 1964 and saw my people being pressure hosed, that was "the man" attempting to keep us down. When Bull Connor's dogs mauled our people who were peacefully protesting, that was "the man" attempting to keep us down. When I was a teenager who was not allowed to drink water from a White fountain or piss in a White stall, that was "the man" attempting to keep me down. I could go on and on, but you would probably say that I need to stop typing and find a job. After all, my lazy Black ass needs to get off welfare, right? Your tax dollars shouldn't have to finance my cocaine habit and my 37 children all of whom have a different mother. If anyone on this board is a Black youth, please don't listen to people like Mr. Brightside. You can do anything you want in this country. That's what makes America great. Please do not think that you are lacking, because you are not. If you want to do something, the sky is the limit.
Do you think that James Byrd is the only incident of racism taken too far? Let's compare apples with apples. If Mr. Brightside can use Japanese-Americans in the 1940's to serve as a standard, then I can certainly name you a laundry list of incidents within that timespan. In the context of the arguments being presented, I definitely think James Byrd is an accurate example. However in the grand scheme of things, I agree with you that bringing that up out of the blue damages race relations immensely.
Have you considered that maybe it has something to do with that they were the only immigrant group who came here as the property of another immigrant group?
Why am I not surprised that you give racist killers more credit in racial relations than an African American. Too predictable Jorge, you're slipping.
That's not what I'm doing and you know it. My point was that people who consistently demagogue isolated events such as James Byrd do severe damage to race relations, if for no other reason than for riling themselves up over the issue. I really don't know why you insist on starting a fight with me. I can't think of one single example where you came out looking good. If you want to engage me in competition, pick something that you could win at. Like muffin baking or something. HO HO HO! That last two sentence combo was sig material! HO HO!
James Byrd happened, period. You insist on replying to my posts, so who's starting what with whom? I won't "look good" in a racial thread because there are guys like you out there that insist on ignoring sound arguments so that your white supremacy remains intact. Invite me to the next David Duke bake-off, I'd like to know a few secrets.
