Racism cuts both ways 2

Everyone's racist. The Problem is: there are far greater consequences being a white racist than being a black one. The reason lies in the fact that white people cannot shake the stigma of slavery. And so, we label black racism as black pride since it hasn't the same evil history. Or ignore history, depending on how you want to take Africa slavery.

 

Well, to think that our flag once flew over a country in which it was legal to own other humans as property... that's pretty hard for me to swallow. It's completely incongruous with what the flag is supposed to stand for. To compare the lofty goals of the Declaration of Independence and our Constitution with how far short of them the nation was in 1860... it's painful, if you really think about it.

Having said that, you have to be proud of how far the country has come in 40 years. Racism as a credo is dead. There are and probably always will be racists in this country, but there isn't a credible political movement in this country that espouses racism or segregation. 34 years ago, that wasn't true.

This is going to be unpopular, but what a load of bunk. I am guessing you were not a history major.

One, don't you think it's probably a little difficult to pinpoint the exact soldier who was shot first in the Revolutionary War? I am extremely skeptical of this sort of thing. Two, given that most black soldiers who participated in the Revolutionary War did so as militia rather than regular enlisted, don't you think the odds of one being involved in the first battle of the War to be exceedingly slim?

When you combine those odds, how likely do you think it is that we can say with any certainty that a given person was the first person shot in the Revolutionary War?

As for the other two bits of historical lore you've posted, both are wildly incorrect. I am guessing that the (black) inventor you're thinking of was Lewis Latimer. He did not invent the telephone, and he did not invent the lightbulb.

"In 1876, Latimer was sought out as a draftsman by a teacher for deaf children. The teacher had created a device and wanted Lewis to draft the drawing necessary for a patent application. The teacher was Alexander Graham Bell and the device was the telephone. "

Source: Black Inventor.com

In 1880, after moving to Bridgeport, Connecticut, Latimer was hired as the assistant manager and draftsman for U.S. Electric Lighting Company owned by Hiram Maxim. Maxim was the chief rival to Thomas Edison, the man who invented the electric light bulb. The light was composed of a glass bulb which surrounded a carbon wire filament, generally made of bamboo, paper or thread. When the filament was burned inside of the bulb (which contained almost no air), it became so hot that it actually glowed. Thus by passing electricity into the bulb, Edison had been able to cause the glowing bright light to emanate within a room....Maxim greatly desired to improve on Edison's light bulb and focused on the main weakness of Edison's bulb - their short life span... Latimer set out to make a longer lasting bulb.

Latimer devised a way of encasing the filament within an cardboard envelope which prevented the carbon from breaking and thereby provided a much longer life to the bulb and hence made the bulbs less expensive and more efficient. This enabled electric lighting to be installed within homes and throughout streets

Latimer applied for a patent...and it was granted in January 1882. Because he was working at the time for US Electric Lighting Company, he was forced to assign the patent to the company, and thus lost out on the enormous financial rewards which would result.

Latimer improved upon the invention of the electric light bulb by inventing longer-lasting filaments. He didn't invent either the lightbulb or the filament himself.

Source: Black Inventor.com

Your intentions are good-- the role of minorities in pivotal events in American history should be studied. Latimer, and the black men who fought for our country in each of its wars, deserve to have their accomplishments known. They should be part of our curriculum.

It does absolutely no good to embellish their accomplishments at the expense of others, though. This is what causes so much friction around multiculturalism: the evident us-vs-them approach to history, the idea that properly crediting a black inventor with assisting in the development of two of the greatest inventions in American history is insufficient and that the story is better if the black inventor is given credit for the inventions themselves.

In other words, stick the truth and you'll do just fine. The accomplishments of Lewis Latimer and Martin Luther King Jr. and the 54th Regiment and all of the other black American heroes can stand on their own, without changing the story.

 

Here's another question: Why are most of the people on TV who talk the loudest and the longest about the mistreatment of black people wealthier than most people in this country (regardless of skin color)?

Some people do it because it's what keeps the money coming in, and others because they perceive injustices, and they understand that injustices are wrong even if they don't affect them personally as much as they do others. They stand up for other people.

Could it be that some of the people who get angry about affirmative action, reverse racism, reparations and the like, even if they are living comfortably, just don't like to see injustices prevail? You can argue about which of the above are injustices and which aren't, but the principle should be easy enough to understand: It doesn't matter where injustices appear, they're not acceptable. Not everyone wants to apply justice across the board, however. I should think all right-thinking people would understand the fallacy of such an idea. Racism and preferential treatment is wrong regardless of the circumstances.

 

He didn't say soldier, he said American. I believe Crispus Attucks is regarded as the first American to die in the Revolutionary War but I'm no history major.

 

Hey, <b>Batman</b>, are you talking about Jesse Jackson? DaDakota is trying to put him out of business...

 

I predict that it won't be long before.....
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I'm using the terms interchangeably. Neither term changes my point, which is that I think it's going to be very hard to ever identify the very first soldier to be shot in any conflict not covered by CNN.

More to the point, this trivialization of history annoys me. The service and sacrifice of black Americans is far more important than specific minutiae.

Don't you think the lesson ought to be, "Black soldiers fought and died for our country in the Revolutionary War, making incredible sacrifices to secure the independence of a nation (one that unfortunately would not eradicate slavery for another 90 years)", rather than turning it into a "Did You Know?" question?

Aren't you likely to get a more fully-formed view of black history by understanding the role black soldiers played in our independence as opposed to being able to answer a trivia question by naming the first soldier killed?

 

DaDaKota et al,

I know. . I know. . the river about to spat out some bs as i always do in these threads . . . but let me try

1. Racism still exists. We all agree on that.
The issue is now INSTITUTIONAL RACISM. Things BUILT into systems that cause those oppressed for years to not be able to get access to various opportunities.

Me saying I hate white folx is one thing . .. .
a Nation saying they hate black folx is another. . . .
THIS NATION has INTENTIONALLY held black folx down. . . as a matter of LAW! [Jim Crowe Laws]
Jewish folx and other immagrants where held back by a collection of people.

THe point is. . . As a black man I don't want a hand out. . . but IF i goto a bank . . . I don't think it unreasonable for me to have the SAME opportunity for a loan as a white person.

The problem IMO is white folx have lived with privilege so long they beleive getting the lion share is a matter of right. Anything that cuts into their peice of the pie [which was gained over generations of oppression and unfair playing fields] is seen as taking something from them.

IF I steal from you now. . . . kill you . . . maim your children . . . .put your kids in abject poverty. Forcing them into inferior schools . . .deny them various opportunities . . and then do it to their children . . and their children's children. . . . . then finally say HEY! f*ck it. . it ain't worth it . . .GO FOR SELF. HOWEVER, they still in the same schools. . they have access to the good schools BUT they need money and the approval of those schools to get in . . but those schools don't want people from THAT NEIGHBORHOOD here. . . . . .Those banks don't loan money to people WITHOUT MONEY . . . .

Well i hope u see the point. Do Black folx have somethings we can improve upon? D*MN RIGHT!!

DaDakota. . . . do you have a problem helping people in general . . or helping people based on race and history?

Rocket River

 

I agree. The issue of Racism and Reparations etc is not about what Black folx have accomplish or not accomplished. IMO it is about fair.

When we locked up the Japanese Americans in WWII . . . . their children got and apology and I do beleive a nice settlement of money.

After the Vietnam Police Action . . . Vietnamese immagents were given some favorable opportunities from our government.

We carved out a Niche of a Country for the Jewish people . . . . If I'm mistaken . . .please Explain to me WHY ISREAL EXISTS? [I'm serious . . .If i am ignorant on the subject . . . I have no problem admitting that]

The history of Black people in this country is Unique to ANY other Ethnic Group [Not unlike the Native Americans . . . two sides to the same coin in a sense]

What America has done would be like me Running you over . . saying MY Bad . .. and keep on moving.

Rocket River

 

1, I think most would consider reparations a handout.

2, how do you see reparations as helpful to the scenario you've listed there? What course of action do you think would solve that particular problem?

River, the problem I have with your posts is that you talk about institutional racism and then cite examples that comprise acts of individual racism. Jim Crow was institutional racism; if you go in for a loan tomorrow and get rejected, it's not going to be because Chase has a policy against black loan applicants.

The problem IMO is that what white people have is being characterized as ill-gotten, as when you say:

Can you understand how I might find it a little offensive for you to imply that I haven't earned (or that I've earned unfairly) what I have?

 

Brian Kagy, actually Lewis Latimer is just one of the inventors I was talking about. Another is Granville T Woods.

The story about the phone is true. You can check the court records if you would like. The fact is that Woods did invent the phone. It was called telegraphony at the time. Bell ended up having to purchase the plans from Woods. It combined features of both the telephone and telegraph. It was in fact far superior to the work done by Bell.

Granville T Woods - also known as the Black Edison because he competed successfully with the celebrated Thomas Edison to market a telegraph system. Woods lost a struggle with Alexander Graham Bell to market an advanced telephone transmitter for which Woods had received a patent. Without the required funds to market his device, Woods was forced to sell it to the Bell Telephone Company.
http://www.knowyourblackhistory.com/black-inventors.html

Timing is also correct about Crispus Attucks.

I wasn't trying to trivialize it, but that is one fact that many don't know. So when people are talking on this board about sending people back to the mother land, I think it's important to know things like that about Crispus Attucks. I think it depends on what level of education you are talking about. At first or second grade the facts have to be kept fairly simple, and discussing the complex roles of Blacks in colonial military wouldn't be too beneficial. I do agree with you as far as further education goes. But very little history studies in even Jr. high and to a large extent high school ever delves all that deep.

 

BK: I've known an awful lot of black people. I count a number of them among my friends. One thing I have learned is that the majority of them I know come from poor background and had to struggle a great deal through a variety of hurdles set up (knowingly or otherwise) by white people just to get jobs and an education among other things.

But, getting beyond just the skin color issue, I've also known quite a few poor white people. And, from experience, people who come from poverty almost always see success and failure in the distribution of wealth. They see an opportunity for their kids to go to college instead of having to work two minimum wage jobs. They see the chance to actually afford healthcare and put decent food on the table. They see the ability to live in a neighborhood not riddled by crime.

The result is the unshakable belief that money, in their cases, not only buys happiness but justice. Many of the black people I've known support reparations (and I'm only speaking of my impressions of them) because they view it as vindication. For them, money does equal opportunity and justice. IMO, they view it this way not just through the eyes of decendents of slaves but through the eyes of poverty. For them, being rewarded through money is a sign of respect.

We may not all understand it. If you come from a situation where you aren't poor and, like me, you have a hard time even imagining what it would be like to live in abject poverty because your family and friends have money and offer protection, it is hard to put yourself in that situation. But, I can tell you that, for many, money is power and the lack of money is more than the lack of power, it is helplessness.

I don't even know if I agree about whether or not reparations are a good idea. At this point for me, it's not worth arguing because I don't really have an opinion. However, just because WE don't think it is the best way to solve the problem doesn't mean others don't have good, honest reasons for feeling like reparations will patch up some of the damage done.

 

I think the misunderstanding came when you believed I was referring to Latimer in both cases. I wasn't. I've given you the information on Graville T. Woods above.

In other words I did stick to the truth and I was just fine.

 

I think this just goes back to Tort Reform.

Everyone now days is just thinking of ways to create a stir and get paid. From smokers, to junk food eaters to people alleging racism or slave reparations.

C'mon.....everyone can look back throughout history and see that they were wronged. My family is from Pakistan which was before 1947 a British colony. They used and oppressed that country for longer than slaves were in the United States. Does that mean that I should sue England?? Well they utilized the people of my country and our commodities thereby limiting our personal wealth and enslaving our nation.

But you know what..............Thats life. You can't dwell on things and look back at ancestors actions. You have to look forward. My father came to this country virtually penniless and worked damn hard and is now a multi-millionaire and a very successful man because he never blamed or looked for a handout, even if there might have been some right to one.

If anything you know what? I go through reverse-racism myself. I honestly see individuals of "under-represented minorities" (african-americans, hispanics, native americans) with less qualifications and lower scores get into great masters programs and recieving numerous scholarships whereas because of my race its harder than a white person to get into some programs. WTF is that? I should sue somebody!

 

I understand how you can be offended. . . not unlike the inferrence that black folx are just lazy [or as it is put here. . .need to just work harder . . . ]

Chase Bank does not have a policy against black folx. however there policies mark various things as REASON for denying a loan. These Various things are characteristics that are heavily attributed to black folx and their background. If you live in River Oaks it is a feather in your cap . . if you live in 5th ward it may count against you. High crime neighborhood vs low crime.

The thing is that over time because of the oppression of the past black folx were forced into various econimic realities that other ethnic groups did not.

Overcoming those realities is a bit tougher than simply working harder. Esp when you have to work twice as hard for half the results.

I think the term Reparations has everyone thinking black folx want a check for everyone. . . that is not true. . . just an allotment of money to goto various programs [like schools, educational things, Entrepenueral [sp?] enterprises etc]

BK I'm glad you wrote back . . .because i think you hit on the crust of the issue.
Black folx see a bunch of white folx living high on the hog on the sweat blood and tears of our ancestors
White folx see a bunch of lazy sorry whiney folx who simply ain't working hard enough.

Neither view is entirely accurate. . . . but a kernal of truth maybe involved in both
White folx did benefit from slavery [the country benefitted from slavery]
Black folx CAN do more about their situation [who couldn't about their individual situations]

Rocket River

 

American treats immigrants far superior to its treatment of black folx in most cases.

QUESTION: How come you father did not become a millionaire in Pakistan???????????? were there barriers?

Rocket River

 

You don't have to be from the trailer park to be unable to qualify for a loan. Trust me on this one...I couldn't get a loan unless I walked in the bank with half of the amount I wanted to borrow as a down payment. I am not poor enuff to qualify for gov assistance, but I dont have enuff property/cash to afford it without help...

Just were in my life do you see that I have a large portion of whatever pie you are referring to? I don't...