If Bryant is the victim of racism, I think the only one who could be victimizing him is the alleged rape victim. If you are a sheriff that has a woman who says she was raped, and she has bruises and vaginal tearing consistent with a rape, how can you not arrest?
I had mixed fellings about kobe being guilty or not, but after he started playing the race card and buying his wife off its obvious that he is guilty, or is he going for insanity? I dont think its as mutch of what we are told about the case because good high priced lawyers have a good way of getting alot of that thrown out, but by the actions or should i say the reactions that kobe has taken afterwards. I mean come on he knows how much even the thought of racial injustice did for o.j. , and just look at how bad californias buget is now. if there is even a hint of rioting kobe will not be convicted regardless. I cringe at the thought of being wrongly accused of rape, but if i was i sure wouldnt go around being arogant, because that is a characteristic of someone who thinks that they can get by with anything. I think that he has started to panic and it really shows.
I just caught this thread. Fairly interesting. Actually, neither side is able to simply strike venire members because of race. While each side will have peremptory challenges, they may not strike simply on the basis of race -- or gender, as is the case now. If they do strike black venire members, they will be Batson-challenged and will need to show a race-nuetral reason why the member was stricken. The trial court could, if it feels the prosecution reached beyond a race-neutral reason to strike, dismiss the array of potential jurors and start again with a new pool.
That's just naive. Kind of like saying it's illegal to not hire someone because of their race or gender. Sure it's illegal, yet it still happens all the time.
Have you ever seen a Batson challenge? Your statement sounds like it came out of a textbook. In practice, it takes very little imagination to come up with a reason to dismiss a juror. On appeal, it become even harder to prove that a juror was stricken solely on race. Besides, I think this is a moot point if the trial is in Eagle County where there are few blacks in the jury pool.
Maybe he feels he's being prosecuted because he's rich and famous and an easy target for a big paycheck.
OK. I don't see any other way to read it, but I suppose it isn't too important what Bryant meant by that anyway. I'm not talking about an acquittal, I'm talking about a hung jury, which I'm being told can be caused by a single juror. All I'm saying is that it is as believable to think that one sympathetic juror could hang the jury and let Bryant walk as it is to think that all 12 jurors are racists that would convict Bryant for being black. It is much easier for 1 person to manipulate the system in Bryant's favor than it is for 12 strangers to conspire against him. And, I'm willing to bet that the prosection will do what it can to be sure there is at least one black juror so they can avoid the accusation of racism. pgabriel, maybe that is what he's thinking. I don't think this MLK quote is appropriate for that situation though.
I was reading TIME magazine today, the one with Ahhhnold?! on the front (Arnold Schwarzenegger). In it, it had a little blurb about Kobe's wife wearing a shirt with the word "Latina" on it. Only like .2% of the population in Eagle County is black, but 23.2% (these figures might be a little off, just going off of memory) is Hispanic. The race issue will definitely come into play, Kobe being black and assaulting a white girl in a predominantly white county. It's inevitable, since it's ingrained in almost everyone to be prejudiced against a certain skin color or ethnic group. I think having a Hispanic wife will help him out though. It's been brought up that there are very few black people in Colorado, but there are quite a few Hispanics. Him being married to one might help him out. Ultimately though, I think we have to believe in our judicial system. No system is perfect, and we let OJ walk even though there was a ton of evidence against him. Even if race is an issue, I don't think it will be the deciding factor. I'm not naive, I know that there are blind racists everywhere, but I hope to God that this one is a fair trial that we don't screw up.
Maybe there was a slight miscommunication. Naive? No. Never been called that one before. Of course it happens. The point was the available remedy and the time the error must be preserved for appeal. If somebody strikes a potential juror because of race, and gets Batson-ed, he, of course, could posit that the venire member was 'unattentive', or 'didn't make eye contact with counsel' -- there are a myriad of justifications for it. My point was that the remedy is not going to be a motion for a new trial or an appeal upon conclusion of the case. If the defense feels the empaneled jury is sufficient and doesn't object at jury selection, they *waive* that complaint. It's done. If the defense *does* object, the trial court judge will make sure to deal with it then -- either by empanelling the jury or dismissing the entire panel and starting the selection process over. Either way, practically speaking, it will not be a valid complaint for appeal. If more clarification is needed, let me know.
SoSo, As a matter of fact, I have seen a Batson challenge when I clerked for a district court judge here in Harris County. Sorry if the statement sounded too sterile. Didn't mean for it to be. I agree, it takes very little to come up with a race-neutral reason to dismiss. It's kinda like this: when someone gets Batson-ed, the moving party has a right to view the voir dire notes of the other side. Many times the notes are taken on a legal pad or scribbled down on the juror information sheets each side is given. As a practical matter, only if someone alludes or indicates in their notes that the reason for striking is racially or gender based will the challenge be upheld. Anything this side of that and it will be overruled. When it comes to an appeal based on seating a jury, there is little latitude to complain. It's not like complaining based on legal or factual sufficiency. There are constructs in place to make sure, for the most part, all issues with a seated jury are dealt with before they are sworn. It is not an issue that can be brought up first on appeal, or one that is likely to be used to grant a new trial.
Originally posted by JuanValdez OK. I don't see any other way to read it, but I suppose it isn't too important what Bryant meant by that anyway. I just think it's reaching a little because if he would have quoted a Bible passage having to do with the crucifixion of Jesus no one would really say he was saying it because he felt prosecuted due to his faith. He certainly might have meant it that way but objectively speaking it's impossible to really know for sure. Given what we know of Kobe's character and his lack of entry into "race card" issues in the past, it just seems hard to believe he meant it that way. I'm not talking about an acquittal, I'm talking about a hung jury, which I'm being told can be caused by a single juror. All I'm saying is that it is as believable to think that one sympathetic juror could hang the jury and let Bryant walk as it is to think that all 12 jurors are racists that would convict Bryant for being black. It is much easier for 1 person to manipulate the system in Bryant's favor than it is for 12 strangers to conspire against him. And, I'm willing to bet that the prosection will do what it can to be sure there is at least one black juror so they can avoid the accusation of racism. Well I was speaking more on a practical level. In this scenario of racist jurors, it's more likely to benefit the DA because there are so few blacks in that particular town. I understand what you mean though. I'd also say though that historically speaking, it's been more likely that 12 white jurors would have racist tendencies that would convict on that basis more so than 1 black juror would hang an entire jury on the same basis. Additionally, this case involves a situation with a black man and a white woman which is something that's more likely to trigger a racist response than if it were a black man and a black woman. The whole black men preying on white women thing has historically triggered racism.
I'd agree with everything you have to say except this part. Perhaps looking at the whole history of the US, this may be true, but looking at the current generation, I doubt it is. Not saying that I expect minority jurors to put race ahead of justice, I just think 1 person undermining the justice system is more likely nowadays than 12 conspiring to do the same, regardless of race.
good catch The problem for Kobe is this county has .3% blacks. Let's say the county population is 50,000, it would have 150 African Americans. Let's say 30,000 citizens are jury eligible, and of that 30,000, only 90 are African American. Let's say the jury venire is 300 citizens, 1 of every 100. We will see 1 black face in that panel of 300, and that person could be buried somewhere in the back. Kobe has to get this case moved into a county where a Batson challenge will have meaning. This county is a Batson free zone.
It looks like the circus just got another act. http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/story?id=1594856 West Virginia-based group leaves fliers EAGLE, Colo. -- A white supremacist group acknowledged Tuesday it left fliers around this mountain community telling whites not to have sex with blacks, and said the fliers were in response to the sexual assault case against NBA superstar Kobe Bryant. The fliers were mailed or left on lawns and windshields by the West Virginia-based National Alliance. National Alliance spokesman Erich Gliebe said in a telephone interview the Bryant case was "absolutely" the motivation. "We're concerned about areas such as Eagle County, where they have a relatively small number of blacks," he said. Gliebe told ESPN's Shelley Smith that 3,000 of the fliers were distributed, and that the group plans to distribute more as the case continues. The Los Angeles Lakers star, who is black, is charged with assaulting a white 19-year-old hotel worker at a resort in nearby Edwards in June. He has said the sex was consensual. The fliers might provide the kind of evidence Bryant's defense could use to get the trial moved, according to ESPN legal analyst Roger Cossack. But Cossack doesn't think lawyers will seek a change of venue, and said the flier itself is not strong enough evidence to believe the jury pool has been tainted. Eagle County sheriff's spokeswoman Kim Andree said deputies were investigating, but the only crime that may have been committed was littering. Earlier Tuesday, Andree said authorities knew of no connection between the fliers and the case against Bryant. She did not return a telephone message Tuesday night after Gliebe's comments. Bryant's lawyer and a prosecutor's spokeswoman did not return after-hours messages Tuesday. The fliers were headlined "Don't have sex with blacks." They listed the names of three black men and accused them of lying about carrying HIV when they slept with white women. The National Alliance was founded by the late William Pierce, author of the racist novel "The Turner Diaries" that figured prominently in the Oklahoma City bombing case. Pierce left nearly everything he owned to the group when he died of cancer in July 2002. FBI spokeswoman Ann Atanasio said the agency was monitoring the situation but taking no action. "There is no threat contained in them," she said of the fliers. "This is apparently a common tactic used by the National Alliance." District Attorney Mark Hurlbert was not concerned that the fliers would affect the Bryant case, spokeswoman Krista Flannigan said. Bryant's lawyer did not return an after-hours telephone message. Andree would not say whether the National Alliance or other groups had distributed fliers in Eagle before. She did not know how many fliers had been left. The fliers listed a Denver-area phone number that is answered by a recorded message touting white supremacy. The man on the recording identifies himself as Pierce. Mayor Roxie Deane called the fliers "totally unacceptable." She received two were mailed to her bearing Denver postmarks. "We are definitely not racists," Deane said of her town's 3,500 residents. "In fact, I've gone out of my way in interviews to say that. I don't know if they're offended by that." Mark Potok, spokesman for the Montgomery, Ala.-based Southern Poverty Law Center, which monitors white supremacist groups, said the National Alliance often distributes similar fliers. "They do have a history of coming in to communities where they sense some kind of racial conflict and doing their best to take advantage of that," Potok said. "I think they see that the Kobe Bryant case is getting very different reactions from white America and black America. "They're there to exploit that position, they're hoping white people angered at this alleged rape will join them in their quest." In December, fliers urging people to join the National Alliance were left on doorsteps and driveways in Colorado Springs. In February 2002, similar fliers bearing the alliance's name were left in Lakewood, a Denver suburb.
I wish one of you guys that are obviously lawyers, since I can't understand a word you say, would speak to the directed verdict question I posed earlier. How does a directed verdict work, and can you even have one in a criminal trial ? I read a post on this or another board that a guy who had served on a jury was surprised at how little latitude the judge had allowed. They were given a list of about five questions and how they answer those questions determined the verdict. Please clarify if you will, thank you.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ap-lakers-racistfliers&prov=ap&type=lgns To all of you who already think Kobe is guilty and ready to convict him, I think you should ask yourself if you're being fair to him. What if he was a white superstar, for example, Wayne Gretzky? What exactly are the reasons you feel he's guilty and are you only looking at it from one perspective? Sure Kobe is an adulterer, he's already admitted to that. But does being an adulterer mean that he's more likely to commit rape? - on the flip side, does her agreeing to work up his dick until it's hard, make it more likely that she'll have Kobe insert his dick in her? People have asked, "why would she do this, and face all the media scrutiny?" - you can ask, "why would Kobe do this when he has many female admirers waiting to have sex with him?"....what makes her so special that he would want to force himself on her instead of other possibly more attractive women who WANT to have sex with him? It's very likely that she gave all the 'right signals' for a girl interested in a fling, all the way from meeting Kobe to agreeing to see him in his hotel room alone at night, to feeling up his privates. Is it too unfathomable then, that she went one step further and gave the 'right signals' up to the time of intercourse and during intercourse? People have said that she surely would have filed a civil suit by now if she was only interested in money, or that she would surely have been paid off by now is was in it for money. How about looking at it from another angle? Wouldn't Kobe have offered her $$millions to keep it hush hush, if he was guilty? Perhaps he is innocent and believes that she does not deserve the money. I'm not saying that Kobe is 100% innocent, by any means. I'm just saying that people who think he's already guilty and will continue to believe so even if the jury concludes he's innocent, "because he's a big star" - they should look at the case from a different perspective, and look within themselves to find out why they won't give Kobe the benefit of the doubt.
Since there are many who WANT the race card played, could Team Kobe be sending out those flyers to assist in moving the trial and creating sympathy for their client at the same time? I don't know. I'm just asking.
The fliers were mailed or left on lawns and windshields by the West Virginia-based National Alliance. National Alliance spokesman Erich Gliebe said in a telephone interview the Bryant case was "absolutely" the motivation.
These aviators (fliers) just came out of the blue, didn't they? However, this flyer really, really helps Team Kobe, does it not? Just apply the "follow the money" concept -- and then ask who benefits the most from this blatant "stupidity?" Timing, settle down, rather than taking a side, study the issue and ask questions. If they are good questions, they will make both sides mad. The great bulk of people, including me, are only looking for truth so justice can be served.
