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Race and Rednecks

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Pipe, Apr 26, 2005.

  1. Pipe

    Pipe Contributing Member

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    Crippled by Their Culture

    By THOMAS SOWELL
    April 26, 2005; Page A14

    For most of the history of this country, differences between the black and the white population -- whether in income, IQ, crime rates, or whatever -- have been attributed to either race or racism. For much of the first half of the 20th century, these differences were attributed to race -- that is, to an assumption that blacks just did not have it in their genes to do as well as white people. The tide began to turn in the second half of the 20th century, when the assumption developed that black-white differences were due to racism on the part of whites.

    Three decades of my own research lead me to believe that neither of those explanations will stand up under scrutiny of the facts. As one small example, a study published last year indicated that most of the black alumni of Harvard were from either the West Indies or Africa, or were the children of West Indian or African immigrants. These people are the same race as American blacks, who greatly outnumber either or both.

    If this disparity is not due to race, it is equally hard to explain by racism. To a racist, one black is pretty much the same as another. But, even if a racist somehow let his racism stop at the water's edge, how could he tell which student was the son or daughter of someone born in the West Indies or in Africa, especially since their American-born offspring probably do not even have a foreign accent?

    What then could explain such large disparities in demographic "representation" among these three groups of blacks? Perhaps they have different patterns of behavior and different cultures and values behind their behavior.

    There have always been large disparities, even within the native black population of the U.S. Those blacks whose ancestors were "free persons of color" in 1850 have fared far better in income, occupation, and family stability than those blacks whose ancestors were freed in the next decade by Abraham Lincoln.

    What is not nearly as widely known is that there were also very large disparities within the white population of the pre-Civil War South and the white population of the Northern states. Although Southern whites were only about one-third of the white population of the U.S., an absolute majority of all the illiterate whites in the country were in the South.

    The North had four times as many schools as the South, attended by more than four times as many students. Children in Massachusetts spent more than twice as many years in school as children in Virginia. Such disparities obviously produce other disparities. Northern newspapers had more than four times the circulation of Southern newspapers. Only 8% of the patents issued in 1851 went to Southerners. Even though agriculture was the principal economic activity of the antebellum South at the time, the vast majority of the patents for agricultural inventions went to Northerners. Even the cotton gin was invented by a Northerner.

    Disparities between Southern whites and Northern whites extended across the board from rates of violence to rates of illegitimacy. American writers from both the antebellum South and the North commented on the great differences between the white people in the two regions. So did famed French visitor Alexis de Tocqueville.

    None of these disparities can be attributed to either race or racism. Many contemporary observers attributed these differences to the existence of slavery in the South, as many in later times would likewise attribute both the difference between Northern and Southern whites, and between blacks and whites nationwide, to slavery. But slavery doesn't stand up under scrutiny of historical facts any better than race or racism as explanations of North-South differences or black-white differences. The people who settled in the South came from different regions of Britain than the people who settled in the North -- and they differed as radically on the other side of the Atlantic as they did here -- that is, before they had ever seen a black slave.

    Slavery also cannot explain the difference between American blacks and West Indian blacks living in the United States because the ancestors of both were enslaved. When race, racism, and slavery all fail the empirical test, what is left?

    Culture is left.

    The culture of the people who were called "rednecks" and "crackers" before they ever got on the boats to cross the Atlantic was a culture that produced far lower levels of intellectual and economic achievement, as well as far higher levels of violence and sexual promiscuity. That culture had its own way of talking, not only in the pronunciation of particular words but also in a loud, dramatic style of oratory with vivid imagery, repetitive phrases and repetitive cadences.

    Although that style originated on the other side of the Atlantic in centuries past, it became for generations the style of both religious oratory and political oratory among Southern whites and among Southern blacks -- not only in the South but in the Northern ghettos in which Southern blacks settled. It was a style used by Southern white politicians in the era of Jim Crow and later by black civil rights leaders fighting Jim Crow. Martin Luther King's famous speech at the Lincoln Memorial in 1963 was a classic example of that style.

    While a third of the white population of the U.S. lived within the redneck culture, more than 90% of the black population did. Although that culture eroded away over the generations, it did so at different rates in different places and among different people. It eroded away much faster in Britain than in the U.S. and somewhat faster among Southern whites than among Southern blacks, who had fewer opportunities for education or for the rewards that came with escape from that counterproductive culture.

    Nevertheless the process took a long time. As late as the First World War, white soldiers from Georgia, Arkansas, Kentucky and Mississippi scored lower on mental tests than black soldiers from Ohio, Illinois, New York and Pennsylvania. Again, neither race nor racism can explain that -- and neither can slavery.

    The redneck culture proved to be a major handicap for both whites and blacks who absorbed it. Today, the last remnants of that culture can still be found in the worst of the black ghettos, whether in the North or the South, for the ghettos of the North were settled by blacks from the South. The counterproductive and self-destructive culture of black rednecks in today's ghettos is regarded by many as the only "authentic" black culture -- and, for that reason, something not to be tampered with. Their talk, their attitudes, and their behavior are regarded as sacrosanct.

    The people who take this view may think of themselves as friends of blacks. But they are the kinds of friends who can do more harm than enemies.

    *******************************

    Mr. Sowell, the Rose and Milton Friedman Senior Fellow at the Hoover Institution, is author, most recently, of "Black Rednecks and White Liberals," published this week by Encounter Books.

    Link:
    http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB111448311657516833,00.html

    Explains alot about Karl Malone, anyway. ;)
     
  2. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    There was a study done showing the difference, and the results pointed to 4 groups that have similar results. All four groups were colonized, conquered or enslaved. Meixican Americans were one group, and they differed from other latin populations who immigrated of their own free will.

    Just as in this study groups that were African in Race had a difference depending on where they were from. I think culture and the level to which these peoples families have experienced racism is what makes the difference.
     
  3. RocketMan Tex

    RocketMan Tex Contributing Member

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    [​IMG]

    "Taint true, taint true! Ain't that right, Clem"

    "You betcha Earl. It's juss one o'dem libuhrul newspaper thingies. Now go fetch me another Falstaff!"

    :D
     
  4. wouldabeen23

    wouldabeen23 Contributing Member

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    He likes his Falstaff beer like his back-against-the-wall-redneck-mother who is SO proud of her boy...
     
  5. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Contributing Member

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    Wow, that was an excellent read. I'd like to read more of Thomas Sowell's stuff. He has a very interesting take on this subject, and one that I tend to agree with. It's all about culture. B Obama's speech at the DNC had some similar points that he made around culture.
     
  6. twhy77

    twhy77 Contributing Member

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    Are you the one on the left or the right? ;)
     
  7. Saint Louis

    Saint Louis Member

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    I heard ole Sowell pert her down;
    One thang Thomas Sowell shou'd remember,
    Southern man don't need him around anyhow.
     
  8. Oski2005

    Oski2005 Contributing Member

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    What's the origin of the Redneck/Cracker culture back on the other side of the pond?
     
  9. MadMax

    MadMax Contributing Member

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    they better not be poking at the Irish, damn it!!! :mad: :D
     
  10. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Contributing Member
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    This is an interesting fact, and tends to give weight to his arguement but it is also a bit deceptive, in that it doesn't provide numbers between equal populations, say northern white and southern white soldiers.

    This eliminates any possible arguement for two effects, one racial one cultural.

    This isn't necessarily bad, but any time you are presented with an intelectual arguement which has a major emotional element (the desire not to feel racism occurs, and therefore to think of yourself as supremely just) then it deserves a more detailed examination if you care more about being right than feeling good.

    The supposition, however, seems reasonable enough. I'd still like to see more data.
     
  11. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Contributing Member
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    These two points fail to respect that there is that there are basic ties between culture and race. Quite a bit of what is called "racism" is as much culturalism as anything else. The same holds true for the anti-immigration movement.

    If you hate every black person that doesn't act like a upper middle class white person (perhaps 5% of the black population), are you doing anything other than salve your ego if you say you don't hate black people, just black culture?
     
  12. AggieRocket

    AggieRocket Contributing Member

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    Very original!! I got a good laugh reading this.
     
  13. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Contributing Member

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    There's a lot of factual holes in that article that's left up to the imagination. I wonder if there's a way to get a hold of his sources, or if anyone's read his books.
     
  14. Dubious

    Dubious Contributing Member

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    Wouldn't the differences in illitieracy rates in the North and South be more attributal to the differences between rual/agricultural cultures and urban/manufacturing cultures where population densities and the tax base would promote more public education?

    Rednecks are Rednecks because they work out in the fields all day with the sun burning their necks.
     
  15. langal

    langal Contributing Member

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    Good point. It may not be just racism though. I was born in the US - and am thus very spoiled and lazy in comparison to my immigrant father. Most immigrants probably weren't taught to sit on their asses all day watching cartoons while stuffing greasy french fries into their pieholes.
     
  16. Agent94

    Agent94 Member

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    There were very high literacy rates in the pre-industrialized north before there was such a thing as public education. I believe the literacy rate in new england was higher in the 1700's than it is now.
     
  17. rhester

    rhester Contributing Member

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    Jesus loves the little children
    All the children of the world
    Red and yellow, black and white
    They are precious in his sight,
    Jesus loves the little children of the World.
     
  18. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Contributing Member

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    I assume that you recieved higher education or are going to get one. That's the difference between skilled labor and unskilled labor. Even if you're an educated immigrant, your qualifications can be marginalized if the foreign university isn't accredited or recognized. Therefore, you're forced to be underemployed for at least a couple years and are vulnerable to more risks and circumstances.

    Working hard isn't everything.
     
  19. neXXes

    neXXes Member

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    I went on vacation abroad for a month this summer. I was flipping through the channels on TV, and I saw British NASCAR (not sure what it's called there). I was shocked to see British rednecks with many teeth missing dressed in wife beaters waving the union jack while drinking beer as cars drove around in circles.
     
  20. Buck Turgidson

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    Soccer is not for everyone.
     

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