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Quite frankly, Mr. Triple Double is beginning to bore me!

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by DearRock, Jan 29, 2002.

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  1. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    Lunatic,

    Yes, I see your point about the media. I agree it could be handled internally.

    DD
     
    #21 DaDakota, Jan 30, 2002
  2. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Member
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    The Rockets need to learn to win, and they've shown some improvement over the last couple of games in that department.

    Stevie, like many leaders, do, put it on himself in the 4th q. and really helped the team.

    Remember win the Wizards beat us, and Jordan was having an off night, until the 4th Q. Then he was too much. Stevie had that kind of game against the warriors. Way to go Steve.

    While the Rockets are learning to win, hopefully some of the fans will learn to stop being so negative. The Rockets have turned it around the past two games, but it seems fans can't turn around their finger pointing, and blaming.
     
    #22 FranchiseBlade, Jan 30, 2002
  3. DearRock

    DearRock Member

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    Pat Riley used to, and may still, track the non-traditional stats to determine efficiencies and productivity, play by play. While I am not Riley, I have gone beyond looking at whether we won or lost and look at things like our fg% and the opposition fg%, our turnovers versus our opponents turnovers, an so on and so on. Is that purely due to the turmoil we have had all season? Or is there also some thing at the team's core that is causing those numbers to remain so bad? Is it the coach? The system?

    Using a version of the Riley approach, I decided to not get blinded by the triple doubles and see if there are some other things to Steve's game that we may be overlooking. Afterall, if you are concerned about the team's production and efficiency, a good place to start would be with the point guard. Typically, if your point guard is good, you will have an efficient team, everything else held constant. So I start with Steve.

    How many possessions start with him? How many end in a turnover? How many of those turnovers are due directly to him and how many indirectly due to him? How many have nothing to do with him? Of those directly due to him, what caused them? Was it a doulble team? An errant pass? A behind the back dribble while double teamed? How many times when double teamed, did he pass the ball? How many times when he did not pass the ball did we score? Who was the open man when he did not pass the ball? And you keep going on like that.

    As far as I am concerned, if you track these things for Steve during what may be considered his best stretch of the season, you will find many areas for improvement. Just last night's game is a good example. We started the game off great and then all of a sudden we went cold. Did we go cold or was it induced? Review the 2Q and see what role Stevie played in that part of the game. You will also see or conclude that little, subtle improvements in this area will have an exponential effect on the team's overall success, measured by wins and losses. I do not have to remind anyone that a high percentage of our losses have been by 6 or less points. We are talking about two or three valuable possessions.

    So the next time you are watching the game and you see Stevie pounding the ball and then put up the jumper with everybody (teammates) on the perimeter; or Stevie sturbornly going through the double team leaving EG wide open; or Stevie dribbling behind his back and losing the ball and possibly possession; or Stevie or anyone else forcing up a bad shot because of errors made earlier in the shot clock, it will dawn on you what DearRock must be talking about. I know this is the NBA and nothing is given but are some of these things within Steve's control.

    Some weeks ago, there was an ex rocket who did the colour commentary in place of Calvin. I could reproduce some of his comments that underscores the points I am making.

    I am a big fan of Stevie. I just want him to keep on doing the good, cut down on the bad. I know that there are very few things on the court that he cannot do, but our team needs strong leadership and focus. These sins and focus do not go hand in hand.
     
    #23 DearRock, Jan 30, 2002
  4. Houston-in-LA

    Houston-in-LA Member

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    :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

    Some people can NEVER be happy
     
    #24 Houston-in-LA, Jan 30, 2002
  5. francis 4 prez

    francis 4 prez Member

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    yeah steve, 33-12-7 was nice, but i'd really like to ream you for the turnovers. all whopping 4 of them. and when you get those triple doubles sometimes, i'm able to look past those and find small things to nitpick you for. just though you'd like to know i'm looking out for you steve. you're not perfect and i'd always like to remind you of that.
     
    #25 francis 4 prez, Jan 30, 2002
  6. finalsbound

    finalsbound Member

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    DearRock, sorry dude, but you can't win. Stevie Franchise can shoot with the best of them, slash with the best of them, pass with the best of them, run with the best of them, fake with the best of them, cross the best of them, deny with the best of them, talk trash with the best of them, carry a team, perform in the clutch, and use excellent court sense.

    I'd say that all but makes up for 4 turnovers.
     
    #26 finalsbound, Jan 30, 2002
  7. krosfyah

    krosfyah Member

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    Your analysis sounded convincing until I reached the end of your message and didn't see the analysis part. :rolleyes:

    Was that a formal hypothesis and/or will you be providing us some stats?
     
    #27 krosfyah, Jan 30, 2002
  8. DearRock

    DearRock Member

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    Crossfire,

    This weekend I intend to produce some stats from various games. I am anxious to see what they say.
     
    #28 DearRock, Jan 31, 2002
  9. Tmo

    Tmo Member

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    I don't know why there's so much animosity toward DearRock. You can say 'SF can x with the best' at his position on a number of things, and that is what makes him one of the best point guards in the league. I don't think DR is denying that. However, you can also say 'SF cannot x with the best' at his position on a couple things, too, and that his deficiencies in this area are important. One of those things is decision-making, which doesn't always correspond perfectly with turnovers or assist-to-turnover ratios. As DR pointed out, bad passes are sometimes still caught, lost dribbles are sometimes retrieved; there is no stat for dribbling down the shotclock and passing to a teammate in a bad position to shoot or taking a bad shot yourself.

    For some teams, SF's faults are permissible. But if SF is to be the franchise player of a championship team--like most on this board expect him to be--these faults will have to be corrected. Do you think that MJ early in his career was told or told himself it was all right not to try to fill the holes in his game? Of course not. That is part of what made him great.

    ALL franchise players on championship teams are superb decision-makers. SF right now is not. That is why no GM would trade Kobe for SF, even though the latter probably has better stats. Who do you want SF to be like--MJ, or Marbury?
     
    #29 Tmo, Jan 31, 2002
  10. Manny Ramirez

    Manny Ramirez The Music Man

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    So, DearRock:

    Does 1-18 or whatever the hell it was excite you? That Rocket team without Francis was really exciting wasn't it?
     
    #30 Manny Ramirez, Jan 31, 2002
  11. DearRock

    DearRock Member

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    Manny, that 1-18 is a misleading stat. We definitely will not do well without Francis but we the insiders who follow the team very closely have more information than some of the national media. In addition to Francis being out, we had other negative things happen during that time: Rice, KT, etc, etc. Let me put it this way, if he goes out now for another 19 games, the team will not go 1-18 again.
     
    #31 DearRock, Jan 31, 2002
  12. DearRock

    DearRock Member

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    Tmo, are you a carpenter? You hit the nail on the head! :D
     
    #32 DearRock, Jan 31, 2002
  13. dreday

    dreday Member

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    I can understand where DearRock is coming from.

    I get bored of seeing Stevie get a near Triple Double every night to. Just like I get tired of seeing Vence throwing down a moster dunk on someone's grill, having to see AI break some ankles with a madd crossover. Or even worse having to watch Jordan go off for 50............. What's a guy to do? :(

    DearRock I feel your pain.........
     
    #33 dreday, Jan 31, 2002
  14. arno_ed

    arno_ed Member

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    come on Dearrock
    how can you possible have a problem with Steve. He is the best that happened to the rockets, since they drafted the dream (and ofcourse the championchips) He does everything you want a player to do, he is very all round for a gaurd, he is the best rebouning guard in the nba. Who the hell do you want instead of steve? Name anybody you think wil make the rockets beter than they are now?:mad:
     
    #34 arno_ed, Jan 31, 2002
  15. Tmo

    Tmo Member

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    Not that this was addressed to me, but:

    Kobe Bryant
    Shaq O'Neal
    Duncan
    Garnett
    Ray Allen
    McGrady
    Vince Carter
    Jason Kidd
    Paul Pierce
    Webber
    Antoine Walker
     
    #35 Tmo, Jan 31, 2002
  16. gr8-1

    gr8-1 Member

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    Would we have beaten the Bulls and Memphis if Stevie were playing?
     
    #36 gr8-1, Jan 31, 2002
  17. DearRock

    DearRock Member

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    One of these days probably someone would tell me why our fg% is so low, why our fast breaks are non-existent while our opponents' are better. I am bored because my team shots 40% more often than 47%; my team walks the ball up way too often even when Stevie gets the rebound. There should be some advantage to your point guard getting so many rebounds. We do not start our offense early as a result and we do not fast break. Probably if EG, KT, Cato and Willis were left to do the board work, and Stevie and Mobley were steaking down the court, ala Kittles and Kidd, then we may see an improvement in our fast breaks and fg%. The team is playing the most difficult form of basketball at the moment, taking the hardest way to do everything.
     
    #37 DearRock, Jan 31, 2002
  18. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Member

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    Steve generally plays the off guard in the 2Q, with Moochie running the point. His touches often go down significantly then. Are you complaining about Steve or the system?
     
    #38 JayZ750, Jan 31, 2002
  19. leebigez

    leebigez Member

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    Dearock- Thats it in a nutshell. Kidd gets boards then he starts the break. How many fast breaks did Magic start off the rebound? Thats one of the best ways to start a break if you know how to run one. I really don't complain about Steve because he's our best player bar none. If we win or lose it should be him. If he decides to kick the ball out to Moochie, i can live with that because at least the best player on the team touched the ball. What i can't stand is for Moochie to have the ball in his hands at the end and steve being used as a decoy. You don't use your best player as a decoy, he touches the pill no matter what.
     
    #39 leebigez, Jan 31, 2002
  20. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Member
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    DearRock,

    Steve had an off Second quarter. Like I pointed out in another post, Jordan had an off 3 quarters when the Wizards played Houston. Jordan couldn't his shot, turned the ball over etc. Then Jordan came through in the clutch like leaders are supposed to do. The Wizards beat the Rockets. Steve did that same thing against the Warriors. He did it in Overtime against Charlotte too. The guy is learning to lead and take over when the team needs someone to take over, and come through when he needs to.

    It's also been pointed out here before but if Steve had more consistent front court production, his assists might go up and TO's go down.

    I don't think the 1-18 stat is all that misleading. Did you see the team play during those games? They were off synch, out of kilter, didn't have a clue, and lacked any kind of cohesion. When Steve plays when or lose, it at least looks like the team plays together and there is some sort of a game plan. If Steve missed 19 games now they might not go 1-18, They might improve to 3-16.
     
    #40 FranchiseBlade, Jan 31, 2002
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