I agree with Nike on this one. I like Moiso's long term potential A LOT. The people that support drafting him are the ones that like to draft based on talent and potential. The ones that are against it (some in this thread) feel a player should dominate college hoops and prove himself to be completely ready. I think despite the fact that Moiso's intensity and fire have been questioned along with his inconsistent effort on defense that he is worth the risk. If Moiso had answered every single question then he would not be available at the 9th pick as his talent translates extremely well into the NBA game. The Rockets can get Moiso before his value could really rise which would be very good for this young team. He is measuring out at 6-10 1/2, has long arms, runs the floor like a gazelle, is extremely athletic and finishes well on the break. He has a good face up game and shooting range in the half court set. He has some post up game but needs to refine it further. Also he needs to get stronger. The reason I would be willing to take the risk is that the Rockets have a first class coaching staff and this is an ideal situation for a young player to work on and develop his game. Long, athletic forwards like Moiso can really cause major matchup problems in the NBA. Just look at players like Rasheed Wallace and Kevin Garnett, they are so difficult to stop with their length and versatility. The comparison I like to use for Moiso is Sheed, minus the 1000000 technical fouls ofcourse. With some seasoning and work with this young team, I think Moiso should develop into something very special in the NBA. If the Rockets wind up with him at 9, I'll be ecstatic. ------------------ Check out the Best Source for Draft Info Draftsource.net
Where did you hear that Fizer measured short? I heard that Martin measured under 6'9" but that Fizer is 6'8". Is this inaccurate now? I still stick by my statement that Fizer will be the best player coming out in this draft, based on his attitude, and mean streak. You need those to excel in the NBA. DaDakota ------------------
Dadakota, Man, I said the same thing about Kurt Thomas. Long-arms, high-quick release (ala McHale), established turnaround J, and the biggest attitude and confidence in college basketball. ugh. Grummett, Whereabouts in Iowa? I'm from Illinois, 60 miles from the Iowa border. We loved taking on the high-scoring, open-court athleticism of the Chicago Public League schools on our turf. They always thought we'd slow it down or something. Nope. There is nothing more thrilling than taking street ball to task at the tune of 125-110 in a fastbreaking free-for-all. Those Chicago schools learned what orchestrated fast-breaking, sans-dribbling can do to an opponents spirit and wind-pipes. huff-huff!
DaDakota-I think in the Orlando thing....or somewhere. It said Fizer measured at 6'6''. ------------------ Rockets fans wanted at hoopsboards.com Draft Chat, NBA Chat, Team Chat, and more!
Kurt Thomas dominated an extremely weak Southwest Conference, where the average big man was around 6'7". Fizer dominating top 25 teams is a different story. I wouldn't dare compare Moiso and Rasheed Wallace. Wallace was an All-American his sophomore year when he left. He's team went to the final 4. Moiso was all PAC 10 and his team got bounced from the sweet 16. Wallace actually blocked several shots in college. Moiso looked like he was close to blocking several shots. Wallace already had a refined game coming out. Moiso...well at least he was born in another country. Wallace has confidence and fire, while Moiso has....well at least he's tall. Stay away from Moiso! That is my warning. ------------------ [This message has been edited by Da Man (edited June 07, 2000).]
quoting heypartner: "grummett, are you close to the Quad Cities...how about Quincy, IL." quoting grummett: "heypartner-- Clinton, about 30 miles up the river from Davenport." Mango ------------------ Live long and prosper. Donate Blood!
We are just going to have to wait and see on Jerome Moiso. Based on Clutch's info the Rockets like him, and they know talent. The thing I really like about the Rockets talent evaluators is that they do not put much emphasis on a players college stats and whether or not he dominated in college. They realize that just b/c a player was good in college it does not translate into NBA success. If drafting was that easy, then no one would be a bust. I heard Carroll Dawson on the radio a while back (after the Kenny Thomas draft I believe) talking about how they evaluate players. He was saying something to the effect of "Well first I look at what God has given this kid." Moiso has a lot of God given talent, and the Rockets apparently realized this. Then their next criteria, fitting into the system, Moiso fits this team EXTREMELY well. Then after that, they talk to coaches and if/when they talk to Steve Lavin, they are going to get a glowing endorsement on Moiso. He is already on record as saying that Moiso has the most upside of any player in this draft. I dont necessarily agree with that as I think Swift does but still a very glowing endorsement something CD & co. will likely pick up on. One thing also that he said in this interview is that they do not get swayed by public opinion on picks, which explains how a lot of their choices make people scartch their heads. I have a feeling if the Rockets pass this guy its going to come back to really haunt them. The comparison to Rasheed Wallace is based on talent, body, athletcism and the ability to play outside and inside. Who cares if Moiso's team did not make it as far in the tourney as Wallace's team had, does that make Moiso bad? I dont think so. I dont put much stake into fire and brashness on the court. So what if a player jumps up and down thumping his chest? The two premier FAs on this market, Grant Hill and Tim Duncan, are both reserved, nothing wrong with being that way. Hakeem was the same way. I am a believer in looking at talent and how a player fits into the NBA game first. I realize that Moiso isnt the most polished player coming out, if he was he would not be on the board at 9? Probably not. Plus, I dont see anyone else on the board that I would rather take on for this team. Miller and Miles are likely gone, Johnson probably also. My top 8 right now is Martin, Swift, Fizer, Mihm, Pryzbilla, Miller, Miles and Johnson. My question to all the people knocking Moiso, who would you rather select if that does end up being the top 8? Alexander? Tsakalidis? Peterson? Oyedeji? I'd take Moiso over any of them. ------------------ Check out the Best Source for Draft Info Draftsource.net
MManal, I'm not knocking Moiso. I'm just knocking your claim that he is a Rocket's starter out of the gate. If he is what you say he is, he is an energy guy off the bench at best. That is our system. Starting KT and Dream with Moiso, Cato and Mobley off the bench is success enough. You lose credibility when your try to convince us so hard that everything about Moiso will grow and prosper at the next level AND all at a faster rate than KT. Also, why don't you describe our system and why you think he fits in. Our system is quickly becoming full motion that requires cerebral reaction picks. The picks we see on the court aren't all choreographed; they require the picker to think...(1) rotate to an open spot, or (2) come over and pick. The system is much more complicated than it was with Dream. That was the beauty of Dream's team; you could plug-in various talent. That doesn't work anymore. You need players who can think on the court enough to know when to stay out of Francis's way, and when to come over and pick. Moiso has to proove himself in motion sets before he unseats KT. KT is showing natural brilliance at passing and knowing when to pick. [This message has been edited by heypartner (edited June 07, 2000).]
MManal, I don't know the college or foreign talent well, other than what I've read, but based on your top eight, I would make my choice among Moiso and the two big guys, not Peterson or Alexander. I have a question for you. Donnell Harvey is projected to go lower, and I've only read short descriptions of his game, but could you tell me what you think about him and is he really 6'8"? ------------------
Heypartner -- I dont think I have ever asked you this but , Who do you think can fit the rockets system? ------------------ President of the Moochie Norris FAN CLUB
MManual, Hakeem was a hot head coming out of college, although I concede your point about Grant Hill and Tim Duncan. I did have reservations about Duncan, but I admit I was wrong. DaDakota ------------------
Francis3, I don't know college talent, so I can't talk about specific players. In general, we need more defense and rebounding. For offense, the type of player I'd look for must contribute to a motion offense. I'm not ready to hand low post plays to any rookie when we have KT developing nicely. The characteristic of all good motion offenses centers around talent that demands double teams (we have that in Francis and Mobley). After that, everyone on the floor should be able to nail the open shot, know how to pick and move in motion, and know how to pass. Basically, what this boils down to is someone that can execute a playbook that centers around Francis. Ironically, that means Dream is out, unless he learns how to move. How many times did we see Dream looking confused on the high post? That is what you are liable to reproduce if you expect rookies to start.
Exactly how? This team needs 'defense' from the power forward spot, and that is a foreign concept to Jerome Moiso. Like I said before, just because a player is tall and athletic doesn't mean he'll become a good defender in the pros. It has to start from the inside. Outside from athleticism, I don't see any similarities between 'Sheed (when he came out of college) and Moiso. Since when can Moiso play inside? Aside from the occasional fastbreak dunk his inside post moves are nonexistent. While 'Sheed didn't have the explosive arsenal he now has, he still had a solid basic postup game. You also mentioned similarities in their bodies. 'Sheed has always been a powerful guy. Sure, those 3 guys you mentioned don't dislay emotions, but atleast we know they have the inner fire and confidence to compete. From all indications, Moiso lacks these qualities. Hell, before his decision to go pro, I remember reading that he said that he didn't want to return to College because he was scared he wouldn't get any better (correct me if I'm wrong here, but I think it was something along those lines.) You want a guy like that on our team? How is he going to improve his game in the pros if he doesn't even think he can do it on the collegiate level? Good point, but I just think your overhyping Moiso a tad bit. If Mike Miller wasn't on the board, I would trade the pick.
MManal -- If the top 8 goes as you predict it, I'd definitely take Moiso. I'd also feel like I got punched in the gut since your top 8 is the worst possible scenario, IMHO, for the Rox (without considering post-draft trade possibilities, that is). Having said that, I'm not at all sold on Moiso. I don't have a whole lot to contribute to the others on this thread who have reservations about him other than I've seen him play in person a few times. (I follow the Pac-10 closely since I'm an alum of a Pac-10 school.) Moiso is extremely athletic, but he is raw raw raw. What worries me the most is that, like almost every UCLA player of the past few years, he has no fire. To me he doesn't play with the kind of desire that would show that he will one day develop into the player that Lavin thinks he can be. Think Cato with softer hands. But I'd still take that if Miller, Miles, Johnson, etc. were off the board. Also, when I look at potential draft picks I look at their pedigree. As good as UCLA has been the past decade or so, virtually none of their stars have fulfilled their potential since Reggie Miller. I don't think that Lavin (and to a lesser extent, Harrick before him) prepares players for the NBA. It's unimaginable today that people actually debated whether or not Steve Francis or Baron Davis was the better prospect before last year's draft ... ------------------ [This message has been edited by wrath_of_khan (edited June 07, 2000).]
Wrath, Welcome, and well spoken. I like players with fire, that is probably why I like Fizer so much. He destroyed people..I MEAN DESTROYED them. Chris Mihm still has Fizer's footprints on his backside. I want players that hate to lose, even at Monopoly. Personally, that is why I think Hakeem has regressed so much, other then injuries, his inner fire seems to have waned considerably. GIVE ME TUDE DUDE !!!!!!! DaDakota ------------------ [This message has been edited by DaDakota (edited June 07, 2000).]
Heypartner: That is the exact reason I think Moiso fits is what you listed. He can play on the perimeter, has good range on his shot which helps keep the middle open for Francis and Mobley penetrations. Also, when he sets the screen and rolls off of it, he can hit the mid range shot as he has legit range. He is a fluid, "smooth" athlete that moves well w/o the ball. The back to the basket part of his game needs refinement still, but I feel he can develop it with the Rockets as this is a first class coaching staff, and CD really works well with big men. Also, he runs the floor very well in transition and finishes well off feeds on the break which is also conducive to this team. I think the positives in his talent and basketball ability outweigh the knocks of him not giving 100% all the time, his team only making it to the Sweet 16 and the fact that he doesnt jump up and down and thump his chest. Moe: Donnell Harvey is a 6-8 210-220 PF that has very long arms (7-6 wingspan). The comparison I've heard is Dennis Rodman w/o the headaches. Harvey is an incredible rebounder, he plays extremely hard and hustles like crazy. He is a good defensive player and runs the floor well. His offensive game is very raw and his body needs bulk which is why he is projected in the 20s. He could play the role of a work-horse type rebounding machine in the NBA until he develops his offensive game. ------------------ Check out the Best Source for Draft Info Draftsource.net [This message has been edited by MManal (edited June 07, 2000).]
Think Cato with softer hands. wrath_of_khan, come on now, Moiso is not that raw. He is a lot smoother on the court in terms of moving w/o the ball and has a lot better offensive skills than Cato does. I never see Cato face up his defender on the left side of the floor, take a few dribbles and shoot a soft banking shot at an angle. I never see Cato receive a pass from a penetrating guard and drain a soft 15 footer on any type of consistent basis. Moiso's game does need work in the post, but he is nowhere near as raw as Cato. ------------------ Check out the Best Source for Draft Info Draftsource.net
I agree with wrath_of_khan -- Can't get any worse than those 8 going in the top 8. The consolation is there is always a surprise or two ... Tskalidis, Alexander -- maybe even Cleaves, Moiso or Peterson, but those are a few stretches. ------------------ NOTHING BUT .NET CLUTCHCITY.NET
Kobe has always had the desire to become a good defensive player. Even in his rookie campaign, he put forth the defensive effort. His problem was that he didn't have the size during his first couple of years. You'll notice that Kobe made his defensive leap last season, the season after the summer he worked hard in the weightroom to get bigger. As for Moiso, he had all the tools to be a good defender (in college: quick hops, long frame), yet the desire was lacking. No comparison.
