Question for Jeff, subtomic, MadMax, And Other Jazzheads

I may be shot for saying this, but Miles isn't my favorite...I love some of his stuff, but sometimes...sometimes...I think Kind of Blue is a bit overrated. It's a great album, but I think it gets billed as the greatest jazz album ever...I'm not sure what the greatest jazz album ever actually is (haven't reached that conclusion yet) but I know it's not Kind of Blue.

I love Coltrane...Love Supreme is my favorite one of his works. It, to me, is absolutely amazing. I would also suggest a 2-cd set called The Last Giant, produced by Rhino Records....it's a good compilation of his stuff, particularly for someone still exploring jazz music.

I've been listening to A Charlie Brown Christmas (Guaraldi) for about 3 weeks straight now at work!! I love that album!!! thanks to jeff and his wife for giving me suggestions on his other albums.

I really like Dave Brubeck a lot...Time Out is the way to go...he's a lot like Guaraldi in his sound. I actually first heard his stuff on those old Infiniti commercials!! good music...really good music!

Bela Fleck and Flecktones -- interesting, newer stuff...some might argue it's not jazz (like the record store in the Galleria who had them listed as country music!!) despite the fact it won best new jazz album of the year in 2000!

Joshua Redman and Roy Hargrove are two newer guys that are good. Roy is actually from Dallas and has some good stuff.

 

MadMax,

Bela Fleck and the Flecktones were always been billed as Country/Bluegrass, since we first started playing them on KTRU in the early 90's...I know that.

If that recently changed, it could be a promotional maneuver. I haven't listened to the newer stuff. Also, Nashville doesn't really like them and gave them repeated grief for "sacriligeous" use of the banjo. In fact, they had repeated death threats everytime they played in Nashville...no joke! Moving to a Jazz category probably is a smart maneuver for both business and health.

 

Well, I saw Bela Fleck this summer at the Calgary Jazz Festival, so I would say they have moved to Jazz. (Amazing band, btw. Victor Wooten could be the best bass player I've ever seen.)

I'm a dabbler in fusion, and two artists that I've enjoyed and found very accessible are Weather Report and Pat Metheny. The two CDs I would recommend are Weather Report, Heavy Weather, and Pat Metheny, As Falls Wichita, So Falls Wichita Falls, but Metheny has about 20 excellent albums to choose from. This Weather Report album featured Jaco Pastorius, who was one of the best Jazz base players of all time, and the song Teen Town, which is reputed to have one of the best Jazz bass solos of all time.

 

crispee --- interesting...i didn't know that background on bela fleck. what i hear from them, i would call jazz...certainly jazz fusion, but definitely jazz. but i suppose i could see how someone might label them country. i just think it's funny you'd find that music in the same section as garth brooks and travis tritt, is all!

 

Bela Fleck started out as just a solo bluegrass banjo player. While he was a good player even at a young age he was pretty traditional starting out. That is I believe the reason he is often found in the country section.

Sad note: Bela Fleck and the band came to Iowa City for a concert and I got tickets for my fiancee and I. Guess what day the concert was: September 11. We just couldn't go to a concert that night and since he had already gotten into town they didn't cancel the show and reschedule it or anything. It still makes me sad thinking about it...

I still have the tickets in my drawer too. It's really my best reminder of how perspectives across the world changed that day...

 

I think the problem may be that the stereotype for country is Garth Brooks and Travis Tritt. As with every other music genre, country is a wide grouping of music, most of it sounding little like the other. Does Lyle Lovett sound like Garth? I don't think so. Does 'Night Life' (Willie Nelson) sound like Jazz? I think so. Bela has a long history with bluegrass which has traditionally fallen within the wider category of country.

I once had a boss in NYC that absolutely detested 'country music.' He said he couldn't take the cryin lyrics. I am a country fan so I talked to him about it and discovered he was a Grateful Dead fan. His favorite song? Mama Tried. Who wrote Mama Tried? Merle Haggard. Hmmm....

 

I think Bela is best described as fusion although it is hard to categorize jazz influenced banjo playing with no drummer, just a guy with a wierd sampler attached to him that he beats on with his hands.

Victor Wooten is one of the greatest bass players ever to pick up an instrument. The guy is just a phenom. Speaking as a bassist of 18 years, I can attest that Wooten is in the same class as Jaco, Stanley Clarke and Jeff Berlin when it comes to electric bassists. There are many other great electic bassists and probably too many acoustic bassists to go through as well.

To me, fusion is really a musician's music. It is really tough for non-musicians to appreciate because it often is a blend somewhere between funk, rock, jazz and pop music. They don't obey too many rules and the melodies are not always tonal. Pat Metheny, Mike Stern, Weather Report, the Mahavishnu Orchestra, Al Di Meola, Return to Forever (Di Meola with Chick Corea and Stanley Clarke), Allen Holdsworth and on and on.

Most fusion is a cross between rock and jazz and tends to feature the guitar as a primary instrument but not always. I grew up listening to a lot of fusion because, often times, that was where the really difficult playing was. But, it isn't even very well respected amoung jazz fans. In fact, I know plenty of jazz lovers who think fusion is awful.

 

Jeff,

Interesting points. I know that when I listen to fusion I am usually a little more critical of it because I feel it has more to prove (why the fusion should exist) or because I don't feel it fuses enough - relies too much on one style.

Anyway, I was going to mention Cannonball, but he was brougt up. He also did an album with Coltrane.

For some reason I really like The Harper Brothers Remembrance which was recorded live at the Village Vanguard.

I also like a lot of Coltrane's more experimental Village Vanguard recordings.

Stan Getz's A Life in Jazz is pretty good and covers a broad range.

Courtney Pine is a hip-hop/jazz fusionist who is decent, but can get a little repetitive.

Also, don't forget the vocalists:

Sarah Vaughn Live at Mister Kellys
Ella Fitzgerald 40th BDay in Rome
Cab Calloway Are you Hep to the Jive?

Anyway, I could go on, but I am already just adding names uselessly.

Ken Burns's Jazz was good for what it was. We can only hope that something will be put together to cover 50-and-on better.

 

Part of the reason alot of people think fusion is awful is because quite frankly, it is awful. But not because there's something inherently wrong (in an aesthetic sense) mixing rock and jazz. I think the problem lies with the fact that the "rock" aspect of fusion tends to reflect the popular music of the moment. And what was the most popular music in the mid to late 1970s? That's right, disco. Too many fusion albums during this time sound like really unfunky disco played by overacheivers. The problem is, when you mix a simplistic, repetitve style of music with (for lack of a better term) "musician" music, you either get a really interesting blend or the worst of both worlds. Most fusion in the late 1970s falls into the worst of both worlds category. You can't dance to it and it lacks a fire that the earlier fusion had.

However, early fusion is great. Besides the list of artists Jeff mentioned, The Tony Williams Lifetime was another great group especially on Emergency. And I love The Inner Mounting Flame by the Mahavishnu Orchestra and Jack Johnson by Miles Davis. Funny enough, John McLaughlin played on all three of these albums, although I have to say that the reason I like The Inner Mounting Flame is because Billy Cobham is such a badass on drums. I watched a bootleg video of the Mahavishnu Orchestra taken from a performance on some college TV station, and there's one point in the middle of an insanely frenetic passage where Cobham's drum stick flies out of his hands. Without missing a beat, Cobham grabs another stick and keeps going. A second later, he looks to someone at the side of the stage, grins, throws the other stick over his back and grabs another new stick, all without missing a beat. Simply incredible, and far more entertaining than McLaughlin's ramblings on "consciousness" during breaks between the songs.

Fusion is like any other kind of music - most of it sucks but there are some real gems to be found. The difference is that the complexity of fusion makes the lame stuff all the more unpalatable. It's like listening to someone use big words and complex sentences while talking on a subject he/she knows nothing about. As opposed to those of us who talk simply about things they know nothing about.

 

OH MY GOD! I can't believe I didn't see this thread until now! I'm so disappointed in myself.

Another album I haven't seen suggested that I DEFINATELY RECOMMEND WITHOUT A DOUBT is "Somethin' Else" by Cannonball Adderly. Miles is on it as well. Incredible album.

I saw someone recommend Joshua Redman, and I agree there, but how can you recommend a current tenor sax player, and not mention Michael Brecker? I absolute love his "Time Is Of The Essence" album. Saw him live in Boulder last year (Idriss Muhammad on drums), I didn't know whether to go back to the dorm and cry or practice. So I did both.

Looking for vocal jazz? Look at Diana Krall if you want someone new and really making noise now. Sexy, gorgeous, full voice. I have her "Stepping Out - The Early Recordings" and it's ok, but I'd go with a more current one. My Dad has "When I Look In Your Eyes" and it's beautiful. I really like that one. If you want a male vocalist, KURT ELLING ALL THE WAY!! Performed at the UNC Greeley Jazz Festival last year. Not only is he an incredible musician, with an incredible voice, he respects the art and is INCREDIBLY COOL! He told all of us that we are the future and just talked to everyone that approached him. Full on conversations. Incredible man.

Looking for early jazz, more dance type music? Try the "Swingers" soundtracks. Some wierd stuff on there ("King Of The Road"???), but there's some good Dean Martin, Tony Bennett and Bobby Darin. If you like Sinatra, look at "Sinatra At The Sands with Count Basie".

There's one album that no one suggested, and this kind of surprises me because I have it as the second greatest jazz album of all time ("Kind Of Blue" is #1, no doubt). Miles Davis - "The Complete 1964 My Funny Valentine + Four & More". 2 cd's. Tony Williams, Herbie Hancock, Ron Carter, Miles. INCREDIBLE PERFORMANCE! Everyone said that the band came out on fire. Reportedly Miles donated all their checks to the cause they were holding the concert for without telling the sidemen. Tehy weren't too happy and BAM! Jazz history was made.

Wow, this post is longer than I intended. Sorry I'm late to the party too.

 

sinatra at the sands is amazing!! good call, Nuggets!!

i grew up on sinatra...my father used to sing with a big band here in town...his voice is amazingly like sinatra's. he sang at a wedding reception once after sinatra's death that frank sinatra, jr. was at...he came over to my dad and told him he had never heard anyone sing his father's songs as well as that, except of course frank, himself! what a compliment! (shameless plug for dad...woo hoo!!)

 

"I've Got You Under My Skin" -- possibly my favorite song of all time. That trombone solo just screams. Oh man, I don't think I've heard a bad version of that song (although Bono doing that high pitched "singing" over the trombone solo on "Duets" doesn't help).

 

Just thought I'd share <a href="http://www.cdnow.com/cgi-bin/mserver/SID=2012699856/pagename=/RP/CDN/FIND/album.html/artistid=WALDMAN*RANDY/itemid=1391451">this</a> with you guys. I know when you look at the songs it looks corny, but check out some of the names on this album. Brecker Brothers, Burton, Colaiuta, Marsalis, Pattitucci, Scott, etc.. I'm gonna go place an order for this tomorrow from my local CD shop. The Jetson's cut is just plain BURNING! Oh man.

 

Manny-

My uncle got me into Jazz about 3 years ago and I have to say that I fell in love with it.

Of course I like Miles and Coltrane, but Ive been listening to a lot of other stuff.

Personal Favs:

Jimmy Smith
Dizzy Gilsepe
Charlie Parker
Lester Young
Ben Webster
Chick Corea
Dexter Gordon
Dave Brubeck

These are just a few artists I have in my collection. I would suggest taking a class in Jazz history. You really learn a lot about the various styles and stuff, and its quite interesting.

If you dont want to take a class, you can always buy Ken Burns' Jazz on VHS or DVD. It was on PBS about a year ago, and represents in my opinion the best documentary and history of Jazz to date.

Enjoy.... There really isnt a bad disc to buy, but I tend to stay away from Greatest Hits and such.