no..i'm suggesting that there is often a different message taught at mega-churches than what i have found at smaller churchers. a different idea of what a church is and is supposed to be, even. some fundamental differences that suggest to me that the viewpoints you're attributing to Christians and calling a majority may not be so. and i think you'll find that christians are abandoning the Republican party the next time around. not 100% mind you...because you'll never have that. but there is already a lot of noise that this administration burned substantial bridges with Christians...and i think it's why you're seeing Dems talk more freely about religion in the early stages of the 2008 election than we've seen from them in quite some time. Edwards, Obama and Clinton are all talking about their faiths being the driving factors in why they feel they way they do politically.
I'm waiting for the mega internet churchcast. I could shop from their store while listening and they take Paypal.
i'm not a big fan of a lot of what gets preached at lakewood. but i don't have a problem with streaming audio of sermons...in fact, there are more than a few pastors around the country i like to hear from, and this is really convenient. here's the one i listen to the most: http://www.marshill.org/teaching/index.php
I know. He said he was waiting for it so I gave it to him. Podcasts are universal. But with the internet etc the earth is getting smaller. How mega can a mega church get? I'm looking forward to virtual communion.
And virtual Sunday schools.... I've always thought of a community aspect when it comes to churches and I don't know how that's accomplished when it comes to mass market interpretations.
Since Ive already derailed this thread, I pose the following: Do you believe southern bible belt churchgoers who marched against de-segregation, enacted violence and hate upon blacks (civil war and on) are in Heaven today while the liberal non-church folks who fought against discrimination are in Hell? If so, is that a just God?
Thanks for the info. That's what I would have assumed. Sounds pretty similar to what happens in Christian churches, then?
I've met people who go a church in Seoul with 50,000 active members. They get a calendar every month that tells them when they can show up. Other than that, they meet in small groups and are very active. They are some of the most devoted Christians with the best servant attitude. Mega churches aren't necessarily the problem. I don't like the prosperity doctrine preached in most of them, and I prefer a small-to-medium church (mine has about 300 active members), but that doesn't automatically make huge churches bad.
If you can't love your brother who you can see how can you love a God you can't see? I don't think anyone who enacts unjust violence and hates are in heaven unless they are forgiven those sins. racists don't go to heaven (I am not going to judge why someone marched against de-segregation- there could be motives and reasons that are not hateful or racist) EDIT- BTW- God is absolutely Just. EDIT #2- BTW again, these are my opinions and in no way reflect the opinions of Jesus or any other Christian. Check with the Bible for Jesus take.
I am going to assume that you didn't know Jim Morrison. He was a Jewish-Muslim poet during WWII who was heavily influenced by some chump Arthur Rimbaud and he was killed at Auschitz and then buried next door at Pere Lachaise. You clearly went to an inferior college. Must have been Rice, right glynch!?!?!?!?!?!!?
i think it's possible we have diluted the message of Christ by spending inordinate amounts of time and resources discussing who is in and who is out of heaven...instead of working with God to bring heaven here. This is what the early church, as described in Acts, did. They lived with everything in common...they were called the "Third Way" because they offered an alternative to fighting and pacifism. And they stood largely for justice and the notion that all people should be treated with dignity because all were created in the image of God. So women are leading churches...and Gentiles are welcomed in...and the unclean are seen as loved and worthy. This is the hope of Christ. This is where the focus should be in following him. Not as fire insurance...not as a, "i believe because i dont' want to go to hell!!" sort of thing. But a partnering with God to make his kingdom a reality in the present. I'm confident that if that's our purpose...eternity takes care of itself through the one who loved us more than we could ever imagine to begin with. Jesus didn't grow up in a religion that understood heaven to be some distant far off place. That's a largely Greek addition to Christianity that leads to deism. The God of Judaism..YHWH, is personal...and very present in THIS world. This is the God Jesus points us to. We have this Greek imagery of who God is and where Heaven is...and I'm not saying there isn't an eternity spent alive with God, because I certainly believe there is...but the message of Christianity and the hope of Judaism is a redeemed earth. We have these images of the old man on the throne as God...and then we try to fit Jesus into that to suggest he's divine...when real divinity should be centered around who Jesus was to begin with. The man who rides into Jerusalem on a donkey fulfilling prophecy as he went...bringing judgment to Jerusalem and to the temple...and offering a light to the entire world by dying on a cross...and embodying the redemptive work of God as foretold. As N.T. Wright says, we should re-center the word God around that instead of trying to fit Jesus into some other image of who God is.
Just as people who are poor and not given training to escape the wellfare state become dependant upon government. This causes the politicians who run on social program platforms to become more powerful.
So you personally know how ALL Christians voted this last election and why they did so? Wow. Shouldn't you be running someone's campaign? Honestly, why do so many people have so much contempt for anyone with any type of religious background? Most of us aren't trying to convert anyone and we don't care at all about the issues you think we care about (gay marriage). There are so many assumptions being thrown around this thread by people who think they are morally superior to those who have a belief structure. Though many "religious people" give a bad name to others (fundamentalists of all faiths, demagogues and hate-filled people) most people who would consider themselves religious do not care at all about these issues and accept people for who they are. I have met extremely nice people from all walks of life representing all religious views from Christian to Muslim to Jewish to atheist. The one thing that separates those people from the people posting accusations disguised as questions is that none of them believed they were morally superior to anyone who held a different belief structure.
Don't you have a "Catholics for the death penalty" campaign to run? Look, I'm sorry if most Christians in America hold these views. But they do. Don't forget tomorrow is national "Pro-life BBQ" day. Eat a rib to save a fetus!
Touching back on that who goes to heaven? Who isn't 'IN'.... It is not popular at all today for pastors to say that hateful, evil people won't go to heaven, or for pastors to say there is eternal punishment for the wicked, or to say that people are sinners. I consider myself generally a nobody telling everybody about Somebody who can save anybody. Salvation in Christ is the message- But saved from what? I don't believe in preaching to someone unless they are first loved, their stomachs are full and they have a roof over their heads. We are called to serve this world. People don't care how much you know until they know how much you care. Jesus who loves me and saved me said this- 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.' 44"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?' 45"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.' 46"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life." I bolded that last verse because it burns compassion in my heart to love people all around me enough to do what the Apostle Paul did (bolding mine)- "With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, Save yourselves from this corrupt generation." "The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God." "It is God's will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality; that each of you should learn to control his own body in a way that is holy and honorable, not in passionate lust like the heathen, who do not know God; and that in this matter no one should wrong his brother or take advantage of him. The Lord will punish men for all such sins, as we have already told you and warned you. For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life. Therefore, he who rejects this instruction does not reject man but God, who gives you his Holy Spirit." God is not willing that any should perish, but all come to repentance. My opinion of who gets in or who is left out doesn't count. God's opinion is final. Jesus died to save sinners.
Oh, OK. Thanks for letting me know that you really have nothing constructive to add to this conversation and I should avoid your posts on this issue in the future. You are the opposite of what I was talking about earlier. You have a moral indignation for anyone who isn't you. It's sad considering you consider yourself this enlightened being above all argument and confrontation. It's also funny given that it's all an act you put on when it suits you and one you drop when it doesn't.
