no...you need to go check out Jay Baker's church called Revolution!!! they meet at 4 p.m. every Sunday at Pete's Candy Store at 709 Lorimer in Brooklyn. here's a link: http://www.revolutionnyc.com/index.htm i would point out that the insignia of the church includes the phrase, "Religion Kills"..that his last sermon was titled, "Beware of Human Tradition," and this is their form of advertising --
live in NYC?? go check it out! they have a church in Atlanta like that as well. i know of churches that embrace that humility all over the place. if you're in Houston, check out Ecclesia which is on Taft in Midtown.
oh, i know pete's, i've been there many times, haven't done the rev baker thing though, lol. like i said, i've got no beef with the j man. looks like a hoot, i'd go. why not. you do know it's a bar, right?
absolutely! he originally started the church in Atlanta...out of a bar. moved to NYC so his wife could go to college at NYU (I think it's NYU). found a bar that would let him preach on sunday afternoons. among my favorite churches is a church that started in a cigar bar in Jamaica. one of the guys had some amazing experience that led him to follow Christ...went back and told his old friends at the cigar bar...they decided they'd meet there together every week to smoke cigars and read the Bible together...to share what was going on in their lives together. some of the greatest conversations i've had with people regarding God have been done drawing on napkins and sipping a Guinness.
I'm not sure what you want me to tell. You have to answer the question of what you feel is divisive for yourself. My point is that non-Christians shouldn't feel being told by Christians they are going to hell is divisive because they don't believe in Christian Hell in the first place.
But if you're beliefs lead you to not believe in Heaven or Hell what does it matter what the culture says? Maybe it is a cultural belief but that doesn't mean your spiritual beliefs are bound by those cultural beliefs unless your spiritual beliefs are shallow enough as to be influenced by the wider culture. Most of our culture might believe in Hell and someone telling me I'm going to hell might be intended as an insult / warning but its an insult with no sting as I don't believe in it. If I did then I would be compromising my own spiritual beliefs.
It's just the way it is. I'm not saying it is supposed to be that way. People just don't put that much thought into it.
wow dude, so you are saying that your spiritual beliefs insulate you from culture's influence? whatever focus i bring to bear upon the direction i live my life, both spiritually and philosophically, is not strong enough to shoo away the ideals and values i disagree with that are so very, very prominent in the society we live in. i am part of all ideas both extreme and sensible as i am, as far as i can tell, nothing more and nothing less than part of a giant network called humanity.
Actually thinking it over a little (very little ) judging by the way people live do you really think hell is a part of American culture? Or so to say if anyone believes in it they obviously feel no threat or at least understand there is no personal liability. I tend to see American culture blowing off the hell concept, kind of like people in Galveston, TX laughing off hurricanes somewhat. The weather men and the city officials make a big deal out hurricane threats (like some religious people do about hell) but the general populace take it pretty lightly and really seem to believe it can't happen to them. Just a thought- If I thought hell was really into our culture I would think it would be more like the "early 60's"-when nuclear attack was really into our culture, that's when they made us watch a film in school once a week showing nuclear explosions wiping out countries and we had a weekly atom bomb drill where we all climbed under the desk. We were third graders ready for the Russians to first strike us. I do see a cultural belief that there might be a hell, but I think heaven is much more culturally driven into the American culture than hell. Everybody wants to go to heaven, but nobody wants to die.
Its true no man is an island but as a thinking and spiritual individual it is still up to me to weigh what I consider to be important, and to borrow a line from Christrians, true. An insult only affects me to the extent that I let it.
To the point that non-Christians take it seriously and take offense to Christians telling them that they are going to Hell that is a cultural concept since if you don't believe in Christianity why does Christian Hell matter. Other posters have brought up that saying that people are going to hell is socially divisive. If that is the case then it all comes down to a cultural belief rather than a religious belief if a Non-Christian feels that a Christian religious view has such a negative effect on society. Just to add that may very well be so as we are all part of this culture. My own point is you should still consider your own spiritual beliefs, or lack of, and decide whether it makes sense for you, as an individual, to get offended by something you don't believe in. Hurricanes and nukes can be rationally proven Hell or Heaven cannot be. We can all agree on the empiracal evidence of the probability of a hurricane hitting Galveston we cannot though on the probability that actions in this life might lead to our soul in Hell. I think there is a cultural aspect to both. Not everybody wants to go to Heaven. I don't like harps and get bored with neo-classical architecture and I can't imagine spending eternity with Ned Flanders.
I couldn't agree more. It's immature to get offended by something you don't believe in. That is like getting offended at Santa Clause. The point wasn't about how rational or proven hell is, the point is if you believe a hurricane might hit Galveston you take it serious. If you don't believe it can happen to you, then you probably take it pretty lightly. If you say you believe hell could happen and then take it pretty lightly, well I question if you really believe at all. Then you should hang with me, I have a beach condo with Fender strats and unlimited frequent flyer miles.
