We can all thank Hakeem for being great enough so that this website to be created or we would not be involved in the best thread this website has ever had. bottom line, Hakeem is no doubt an mvp because if you would have taken him away, the rockets would not even be mentioned when it comes to greatness. There's no doubt he is a future Hall of Famer, and that he belongs amongst the likes of wilt,russell and jabbar. It doesn't matter what order you rank them, they were all great. But this is a Rockets fan website and yes we should show favortism because we love the dream and we don't have to be sooooo objective because in our minds there is no better center or website. And by the way,Those other centers never had to deal with free agency or salary caps. And the rockets have a good record agast the bulls during their championship years. And a tip for Chenzen and codell, No crackpipe before or during the log ons. You guys might be a little too objective but never the less a minority for this thread.
how about afterwards? being a minority is an understatement in this thread here...some people might think I'm the devil
Crackpipe? Im only high on life buddy. Id rather be a part of the minority that sees things in an objective manner and can support their arguments with facts and not speculation. Its more fun that way!
Excellent point about salary caps and free agency. I'm surprised no one had brought that into play before now. Now can someone answer my question. Who's better, Unitas or Farve?
Again, it goes back to another argument. You cant speculate and say things like, Wilt didnt have to deal with FA and salary caps. Bottom line is, without a doubt, you cant penalize players from the 60s and 70s because they didnt have to deal with the same thing players do today. Also, you cant reward players like Hakeem for things that he "might have done" (i.e. beating the Bulls). Its just not fair to any of them. BTW, we did have a good record against the bulls during the run(s). However, we were never good enough to make it to the finals to prove we were better.
So how do you say that Hakeem is #4 instead of just saying that they are all in the elite four. You use subjective criteria to place Wilt, Jabbar, and Russell ahead of Dream and then reject everyone else using their subjective criteria to say that Dream is just as good if not better than those guys. And I think that that's the point that you continue to miss. Most aren't claiming Dream's superiority just that he is on equal ground. Dream in his prime was just as good as anyone that ever played the game, from Mikan to Ming.
Subjective criteria? Im using facts when making opinion! Ive never once used subjective criteria. Still, no one can dispute that what Hakeem did in his own era, is not as impressive as what the 3 others vs. their own eras. Ive said all along, all 4 belong in the same tier, but if im ranking 1-4, I have Hakeem as #4 (as most NBA historians/players do). Ive said time and time again, you can not penalize players (Wilt, Jabbar, Russell) for what they DID do, or for a situation he was in that he had no control over (playing with other hall of famers or playing in a league with only 8 teams) and reward others (Hakeem) for what they DID NOT do, or what someone thinks he could have done in a different situation. Hakeem did not average 30 pts and 22 rbs for his career, much less a season. Hakeem did not win 11 championships. Hakeem did not win 5 or 6 MVPS. Most of what Hakeem has accomplished, the other 3 did too. There are alot of things the other 3 accomplished that Hakeem didnt come close to. Thats why I have him #4.
how technical do you want to be? why are you and so many others still unhappy with him at a solid number 4? Do you understand why MANY MANY people outside the rockets circle think that he's a solid number 4 after our discussion here? Its legitamate to say he's a solid number 4...it makes alot of sense IMO, you've just got to get over it...
Hey codell, there's one accomplishment you failed to mention. Hakeem is the only player in nba history to win defensive player of the year, league mvp, and finals mvp in the same year. I guess that's one accomplishment that the big three haven't accomplish. You can't keep giving tooooo much credit to the big three for their accomplishments for playing in the unrevolutionized era with small centers with anemic talent!!! It seems that you fail to be objective enough to research Hakeem's career because you know soooo much about the big three and their eras that you are not lookig at the modern era of basketball. You can't penalize Hakeem for playing in a revolutionized era and statistically put up the numbers that the big three did. So if you read this and agree like you finally agreed about Hakeem being mentioned amongst the elite, than maybe this thread comes to a mutual end. But we're all intitled to our biased, unsubjective opinions so for the record HAKEEM ABDUL OLAJUWON is no doubt UNBEATABLE!
Ok, fine they didnt accomplish that. Hakeem didnt win 11 titles, 6 MVPS, a scoring title, average 50 pts a season, average over 20 rbs a season. All 4 accomplished different things that can be compared. Im saying, adding up ALL of their accomplishments and comparing them to each other, Hakeem comes out #4. Fact is, despite the size of centers back then, they played in an era with more hall of fame big men than Hakeem did. Im not penalizing Dream for playing in the era that he did. On the same thought, you cant penalize the other 3 for playing in the era that they did. Fact is, they accomplished more in their careers than Hakeem did. Ive said throughout this thread that Hakeem belongs in the elite circle with the other 3. Ive just debated the point as to why most have him as the 4th best all time. I agree that this thread should be put to bed so we can agree to disagree. My wife is starting to think I like you guys more than her. HAHA
Hey codell, there's no doubt the big three would be Hof players if they played in Hakeem's era, but do you honestly think that all of their amazing accomplishments would still stand in a revolutionized era. That includes free agency( the dynasty killer) (11 championships),more atheletic,bigger and stronger players at the position(100pts in one game) and as for jabber, have you ever seen the movie airplane? You know when jabber is driving the airplane and the little boy goes over to him and says ........ you know what he said. Eough said!!! And by the way, I never penalized the big three for not playing in a revolutionized era, I simply think that their accomplishments are unfair to compare Hakeem who played in a revolutionizd era. There's no way those accomplishments would stand in todays era. "Your never at your best till you're laid to rest"
Duddddddddddeeee...think about it, if those two guys didn't play back then, the 'revolutionalized' era still MIGHT have been a 'fledging' league...You've got to have good foundation to build a great house.
Hey chenzhen, you better not be still reading your sports almanac! And by the way, You can hit the crackpipe after log ons but you can't get back on before a 24hr period. Are you a blue eyed devil or a crackpipe devil.
Nice intelligent comeback...oh ohhhhhh my turn! hey role, yo momma is so fat when she sits in class, she sits close to everybody... (yes I'm cheezy)
I'll give you best footwork. However, Wilt was faster than Hakeem, had an equally good jumper, and is one of three players (Wilt, Hakeem, Cowens) that I have seen block Kareem's sky-hook. Not to mention that Wilt was blocking Kareem when he was old and 350 pounds, and Kareem was 25. In some ways, yes, people are biased against new-comers, but in other ways, it is al the more impressive that Kareem, Russell and Wilt have maintained their stature. Look at it this way... no one ever mentions Elgin Baylor in the same breath with Michael Jordan anymore, even though he heartliy deserves it. But I think Hakeem belongs in that Top 4 group anyway. So? Subtract 28 free throws from Wilt's 100-point game, and he scored 72 points... and there's still 46 seconds left in that game . Wilt far more so. The lane was never widened for Hakeem. Let's also remember that Wilt was the reason for the offensive goaltending rule. Chamberlain was more dominant. I really don't understand how you can say Hakeem was more so. Chamberlain was 7'1", could jump 55 inches off the ground, he bench-pressed 500 pounds, blocked 8 shots a game, scored 50 points a game, grabbed 30 rebounds a game, lead the league in assists. Hakeem was really good, but... God help me... Bellamy, Kerr, Stokes, Embry, Cowens, Thurmond, Reed, Walton, Unseld... ring any bells? Yes. Same here. Yeah, but Hakeem never had to play the Celtics when they had eight HOFers. Yeah, I think Russell made a lot of the guys on the Celtics look better, especially Cousy. Cousy couldn't guard a closed door with a shotgun... but people don't know that. Cousy knew that if his man got by him, Russell would block his shot, then Cousy would get an assist on the fast-break. No wonder he led the league in assists all those years.
I bet it's not easy being that cheezy! uh oh is right, but let's get off mama's because I just got off....... I mean i rolled over how many times to get off your....... I mean your mama's breath is soooooo strong she can blow bubbles with a now and later!
Again, its not a fair arguement to compare what someone might have accomplished in an era they didnt play in. We dont know and never will. Nothing is a given. Example: If Dominique played in the 50s and 60s, hed probably tear it up. Making that assumption though doesnt make him one of the all time greatest players. Their accomplishments are unfair? Then Hakeem's shot blocking accomplishment is unfair cause they didnt keep block stats when Russell and Wilt played, and for the first part of his career, when Jabbar played. Its not a valid arguement. Quit with the assumptions. Base your opinion on fact like I am doing.
Hey drexler fan, we're on page 10 of this thread but if you think that wilt was quicker than Hakeem than your gonna have to sit with codell and chenzhen and hit the crackpipe last! And olajuwon blocked the shyhook at 6'10 how tall was wilt? "Your never at your best till you're laid to rest"
I think to clarify, he said faster, not quicker. There is a difference between fast and quick. Wilt was as fast as Olajuwon but not as quick. And if you are calling us crack smokers cause we have Hakeem #4, then most NBA experts and former players are too.
Yeah, that's what I meant. Olajuwon had the quickest spins and post moves ever... that's why I said he had the best footwork. But Wilt was faster... he actually out-ran James Brown. In Wilt's early days, he was the fastest guy on the team. As most of you know, I'm completely convinced that Wilt is the best player ever, and could go on about him for hours. Even though I'm an atheist, I sometimes say a quick prayer to Wilt, just in case... I'd be happy with just a small fraction of those 20,000 women!
