I'm sure this isn't news to anyone. My question is in regards to this statement: "Olajuwon is thought to be among the greatest centers of all time, just outside the famed circle of Bill Russell, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and Wilt Chamberlain. " Says who? I don't think Hakeem can be separated from those three. He has every bit the pedigree that they do once you set aside the NFL Films-style "frozen tundra" legend and lore. Olajuwon competed in an era in which big, strong, athletic centers were the norm rather than the exception, and he still stood head and shoulders above his contemporaries. Just ask David Robinson, if his head had stopped spinning yet.
Russell has something like 10-15 championships under his belt, Jabbar has around 5 and has the scoring and longevity edge and Wilt probably had sex with at least 24,501 more women that Olajuwon did. Oh, and he averaged what, 50 points and 30 rebounds in a season? Olajuwon is a solid #4.
I think that holding on past his prime has hurt how he will be viewed historically. In the mid 90's it seemed there was no question where he ranked.
I think that statement was based on Peter Vescey's article (which is what all the reports are based on), where he explicitly said that Olajuwon was the 4th greatest center of all time. And, we all know what Peter Vescey is full of... Problem is, these things have a habit of becoming "preverbial truths", and when Shaq is all said and done, Hakeem might be closing as the no. 5 guy (then he gets pushed down with Duncan, Ming, etc.). I'm also sure a lot of this has to do with the fact that Hakeem, and his teams, have dissappeared since 1999. I can't believe he just ended that article with "Expect Hakeem to end up as an assistant with the Wizards." Hello? Hakeem has neither a connection to a.) the D.C. area, b.) Micheal Jordan, c.) coaching desires...And, since when is D.C. desparate for retired centers as assistant coaches. Actually, now that I think about it...was Vescey just being a little sarcastic? (in reference to how both Ewing and Hakeem have overstayed their careers...and now Ewing's an assistant). Hahha...that's actually pretty funny if that's what he intended to do, and everybody just mistook it.
Russell is the most overrated champion there is. Hakeem is definitely top three (behind Wilt and Kareem). He would be number one if he had any sort of superstar help like Kareem.
Wilt won a championship or two and dominated in a way that Hakeem never did (and thats not to say Hakeem didnt dominate, he did, but Wilt scored 100 points a game one time! thats severe domination). 50 points and 30 rebounds a season? Is career average is close to 40 points a game. AND its not like there were no other big men in that area. Russell and Jabbar played at the same time he did as well as some others. I think you would be hard pressed to find many NBA historians that would say Hakeem was better than Wilt. Hakeem was more well rounded than any of em. But # of championships and career #s mean something. Remember that Moses won a ring too. He wasnt quite the defensive player that Hakeem was, but he put up great offensive and rebounding #s. I put him #5 behind Hakeem.
Thats an assinine statement to make without an explanation of why you think that. If anything, Russell is the #2 all time center and Kareem the #3. Dream is my favorite player of all time( lest you think i was a dream-basher)...but he is definitely no better than the #4 center of all time.
I think Hakeem made some poor choices towards the end of his career (actually, I think he made these choices after his career was effectively over). Ten years from now, people will remember the good over the bad, but right now, those poor choices standout. That being said, he'll never break into the top three and although people will remember how he man-handled Shaq, Shaq will still displace him.
Outside of Houston not many people put Dream in the same category of Wilt, Russell, or Kareem. Flame me all you want but that is the reality.
Hakeem is a taller, better, faster Russell. Call me a homey all you want, but Hakeem was superior to Russell in every facet of the game, except passing. Kareem might have won 6 rings, but he was Final's MVP only twice, same number as Hakeem. Also, Kareem was on two teams with losing records and twice didn't make the playoffs, during the ABA era.. He was widely regarded as incapable of winning by himself. Sure, the Rox had their problems, too, but when Hakeem won, he really WON!!! Kareem needed Oscar Robertson (still in his prime, 19+ppg and 8+ apg, and thirsting for his first ring) and Magic to win. Dave Cowens at 6'8 frustrated and played him even in the 1974 finals. Kareem also played in a watered down era during the ABA as still couldn't win again until teamed with Magic. Walton generally outplayed him, as well. For someone so highly regarded, Kareem often had trouble being effective against the other great centers.
You're a homey. Just as you can say that Dream had no supporting cast, you can also say he would have zero rings if MJ hadn't retired. He's 4th best...deal with it.
call me homey, but my argument is more about my belief in what era's of the NBA where the best. <b>Russell fans are just nostalgic,</b> and Kareem believers don't remember Cowen playing him straight up, while giving up 6 inches. That MJ argument works if Chicago could actually beat the Rockets prior and after those titles. Besides, Hakeem and Moses are the only two West coast teams to stop Magic from getting to the Finals in the Eighties. What makes Jordan a more formidable foe??? Plus, Shaq and Penny beat MJ in 95, soundly. I don't think the Bulls make it passed Orlando, even if Jordan plays all season. You see. I don't buy this who dominated their era argument. Hakeem is better than those two, just like the NBA was better. The '70s sucked, and I discount pretty much everything in that no defense-playing era. Russell is like 2 inches shorter, with no where near the offensive dominance of Hakeem. Russell defense is *only* matched by Hakeem, and Hakeem was doing it in a tougher era. Anyone who says Russell is better doesn't agree that the 1980's was the greatest era of basketball, and the 1990's had the toughest defense ever.
I think a reasonable argument can be made that Hakeem belongs in that top circle. Hakeem was better defensively then Kareem and Wilt...he was quicker then all three of them, had the best jump shoot and is probably the only player to block Kareem. He has the best footwork of any center. He probably has more steals then all of those guys combines (he is number 6 all time or something like that)...and we all saw what he did to the competition...including Shaq. His dream shake was rated the sweetest move in basketball, higher then jordon. I mean, the guy had it all...speed, quickness, strength, shot-blocking, steals, points, rebounds, and moves to the basket that just made opponents stand and watch. I think as time passes in history, he's be remembered more in that elite group...people are biased against new comers!
I had many facts to post to why Hakeem should be regarded higher than No.4 on the Greatest Centers of all time. But Heypartner post 90% of them all ready. I still have to reply about the post saying that Duncan and Ming will pass up Hakeem on the greatest center list. First of all Duncan is a power forward and has been ever since he's been in the league. Don't let me get started on Ming; I have alot of high hopes for him but to say that he will pass up Hakeem with out seeing him play one game is just ludicrous. Secondly Hakeem didn't score a hundred points in one game but he is the only player in NBA history to score over 50 points with no free throws attempts and no overtime in the same game. Third Hakeem is the only player in NBA history to be in the top ten in Steals, Points, Rebounds, and Blocks. Furthermore how do some figure that Hakeem is only considered higher than these other Centers only in Houston. I've been around the U.S and the rest of the world and in many locatons around the globe Hakeem was and still is considered the Greatest Center of all time. To say that he has fans only in Houston is the same to say that MJ has fans only in Chicago. If you really believe that outside of Houston people didn't know how great he was you really need to get out more.
What he means is, blocked Kareem's skyhook. Don't forget that hakeem had the worst supporting cast of all those guys, and that Chicago had no one to counter Hakeem, but we had Mad Max or Clyde to slow Jordan.
Didn't David Robinson and Bird do this, too? I think they also ranked in the top 10 in FG% as well for a fifth stat, but I'm not sure.
Dr of Dunk Quote: Originally posted by because24 Third Hakeem is the only player in NBA history to be in the top ten in Steals, Points, Rebounds, and Blocks. Didn't David Robinson and Bird do this, too? I think they also ranked in the top 10 in FG% as well for a fifth stat, but I'm not sure. Bird for sure did not come in the top ten in rebounds, steals, Blocks (come on) , and Points. Neither did David Robinson; Fg% I'm not sure about.
