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quack science gets picked up by major news outlets

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by NewYorker, Sep 12, 2007.

  1. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    Newyorker wants to intern at the law offices of Mephisto and Associates.
     
  2. NewYorker

    NewYorker Ghost of Clutch Fans

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    apparently this isn't a "new" discovery...and it now seems that indeed his idea of filing an alternative fuel patent is a bit misguided. his attempts to output more energy then inputed have failed (for reasons we all know) and he's been trying to dope the salt water with various secret chemicals to change that.

    at last resort, he's saying that the radio waves act as a platinum catalyst and could devise a method to make a cheaper hyrogen fuel cell (maybe, except that he's burning up the hydrogen).

    The reason the water burns is because the radio frequencies might be enough to bend the water molecule (changing the angle of the bonds) which causes them to lose their ability to interact with the sodium atoms.

    as most people know, elemental sodium reacts violently with water and that would be enough to ignite a flame. still, i'm not sure off all the details....

    regardless, if you want more info you can go here....but please, this whole notion of making seawater into a fuel source is just hype to build his name.

    http://peswiki.com/index.php/Direct...es_Hydrogen_from_Salt_Water_Using_Radio_Waves
     
  3. wnes

    wnes Contributing Member

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    No question there is quite a bit of media hype, but did anyone read/hear him claim -- in direct quote -- that he found a new way of "creating energy"? :confused:
     
  4. NewYorker

    NewYorker Ghost of Clutch Fans

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    http://www.goerie.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070518/WSEE01/70517027/-1/WSEE0101

    He has now admitted apparently that it uses more energy that it produces.

    Ya know, it's ironic, the Chinese posters got this right - shows that indeed China is ahead of us in science education.
     
  5. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"
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    there's something we agree on, at least K-16 anyway.
     
  6. wnes

    wnes Contributing Member

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    That's not the same as saying new energy is being created. If I claimed I found a new form of fuel, say, hydrogen, that can be used to replace gasoline to generate heat, did I claim I found a way to create energy out of blue?

    Nothing to be alarmed at and nothing to be ashamed of.
     
  7. DarkHorse

    DarkHorse Member

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    I bet Vista still runs slow on your computer.
     
  8. NewYorker

    NewYorker Ghost of Clutch Fans

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    yes, that's what you are saying. If you say you can use seawater to power our energy needs, then you are in fact talking about a new source for energy.

    And it is a shame that China is ahead of us in education - we spent probably 10x more per child and we have a crappier education system, that's a shame.
     
  9. Major

    Major Member

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  10. Dubious

    Dubious Member

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    I more on the "it's overblown hype" side but consider that even though you would have a considerable net energy loss, the fact that you start with non-potable seawater and end with potable water gives the process some value.

    You would have to compare the net energy loss to the amounts of energy used in other desalinization methods but it could be the most efficient method. In the near future, potable water sources will become as important as energy sources. Especially if global warming depletes the world's glacial water sources (which supplies a considerable number of people presently...though I would think precipitation would increase since warmer air can transport more water vapor...don't know anything about that really ..just thinking)
     
  11. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    Very nice.. although the blonde one's face looks 13. Thankfully her chest doesn't though! :D
     
  12. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    While some the claim of this an energy source are exagerated and overblown it still seems rather close minded to dismiss this out of hand as quack science. If we do transition to a hydrogen based energy infrastructure other ways of generating hydrogen will be helpful than just electrolysis. I don't know if this technique will ever be practical but it certainly seems interesting and might have many applications down the road.
     
  13. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    Nobody thought there would be practical uses for radio waves when it was invented in the 1800s either.
     
  14. Pest_Ctrl

    Pest_Ctrl Member

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    He suggested that this technique can accually create energy during the whole process and be used as an energy source, getting energy out of nothing, instead of claiming this technique consumes energy and produce hydrogen. That crossed the line between quack and real science right there. The former is like a perpetual motion machine that gets free energy from nowhere, and the latter is a technology that might be useful and is accepted by science. It may sound trivial, but it's actually not. It is the difference between the perpetual motion machine that would never exist and the engine in our car that can get us anywhere. Until he claims otherwise, he remains a quack scientist in my book, and it is not because I am not open minded.
     
  15. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet

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    *cough*x-rays*cough
     
  16. NewYorker

    NewYorker Ghost of Clutch Fans

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    i know you love calling me closed minded....

    I'm sorry, someone trying to use radio waves (which can't even penetrate your skin) to cure cancer is quack science. That alone should discredit him and wasting effort and taking away from real scientist.

    The guy is a radio broadcast executive who decided to use radio waves to cure cancer because he saw chemo as too rough. He had no scientific knowledge of the facts. It's total quack.

    The guy doesn't even have a PhD and has an undergraduated degree in electronics from a technical college. He's not a scientist even. he's never done a real scientific experiment, and has never submited a single study or experiment for peer review - a standard requirment of any researcher to be taken seriously. I know more science then this guy - that's how sad he is.

    And to even think this is more efficient than electrolysis in producing hydrogen is sketchy at best. Sure, maybe it might work, but it has a lot of catching up to do with that technology. But it's certainly by pure accident.

    You don't know enough about this to call someone closed-minded about it. So please, just stick with politics. Other posters here have shown why it's quack - posters who normally hate my guts...even some of them see it's quack. Are you calling people with scientific knowledge closed-minded, because I can tell you and self-respecting physicist would laugh at someone taking this seriously.
     
  17. NewYorker

    NewYorker Ghost of Clutch Fans

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    x-rays - discovered by a scientist who was doing real experiements and did more experiments after his discover to establish what he found out and went through scientific rigor.

    vs. a guy who doesn't know anything about science and just used radio waves because he had a nut-case idea that radio waves...the stuff you listen to in your ears - could cure cancer....when it can't even penetrate your skin.
     
  18. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    [​IMG]

    NewYorker: "I daresay good fellow, Inconceivable! Create kinetic motion from vaporized water? Nothing in the realm of man nor beast permits such a ludicrous concept!"
     
  19. Major

    Major Member

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    No, he didn't.
     
  20. NewYorker

    NewYorker Ghost of Clutch Fans

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    "we came up with something that burns and it looks like salt water could be used as a fuel to replace the carbon footsteps that we've been using all these years i.e. fossil fuels." said Kanzius

    oh yes he did!
     

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