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Qandeel Baloch murder highlights how honour killings are still a deep menace affecting Pakistan soci

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by AroundTheWorld, Jul 16, 2016.

  1. AroundTheWorld

    Supporting Member

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    Even if this is a case of 'honour killing', Qandeel's brother can still escape any sort of punishment and here's why.

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    Pakistani model and self-proclaimed social media sensation, Qandeel Baloch met her fate on Saturday when she was strangulated to death by her brother at her Multan residence.
    Baloch’s death has been all over Pakistani media as soon as it broke out. Though the main reason behind Baloch’s death getting such coverage is probably her choice of public image, her murder also reflects of a deep menace affecting the Pakistani society — honour killing.
    The murder, though still under investigation, amid reports of the model getting continuous threats from her brother for posting videos and pictures on social media and for the sheer frequency of such incidents in the country, is widely being hailed as an act of honour killing.

    But even if this is a case of ‘honour killing’, Qandeel’s brother can still escape any sort of punishment and here’s why.
    Pakistan’s legal system has no law enforcing punishment in case of ‘honour killing’, if the accused can get a pardon from the family. And since the assailant is, more often than not, a blood-relative of the woman, these pardons are easy to obtain after which the state has absolutely no say in the matter.
    The law, which is essentially is the Islamic Sharia law of Diyat, tips the balance in favor of the men attacking women as a result of which several hundred lives are lost every year. Women are callously killed in the name of honour if they go against the will of their families in any way, or even if there’s suspicion suggesting so.

    The easily obtainable impunity has resulted in Pakistani women suffering unspeakable acts of abuse at the hands of male members of the family. Women are shot dead, burned alive, mutilated everyday in the name of honour and Pakistan’s legal system conveniently looks the other way.
    Any attempts to change the law have been blatantly shot down. Bills introduced in the Parliament proposing to strengthen the Pakistani Penal Code and curb ‘honour killings’ have been dismissed as “un-islamic” by a majority in favor of respecting the society’s “cultural traditions”.
    According to a report by the Human Rights Commission of Pakistan, 869 women were killed in the name of honour in 2013 alone. At least 943 in 2011, including 93 minors. In 2010, 791 women were killed.

    The void left by the state is filled by tribes and local elders who continue to encourage the sickening culture. Even in the face of rising demands of basic rights for women, Pakistan has openly abdicated itself from the responsibility of half of its citizens calling it a feature of a feudal society.
    In all probability, Qandeel Baloch’s death is going to fall on deaf ears in her home nation but maybe its time that it changes.

    http://indianexpress.com/article/op...aloch-murder-pakistan-honour-killing-2918317/
     
  2. sammy

    sammy Contributing Member

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    Messed up
     
  3. Exiled

    Exiled Member

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  4. LosPollosHermanos

    LosPollosHermanos Houston only fan
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    ****ing terrible. Eye for an eye punishment for these pieces of **** in situations like this imo.
     
  5. AroundTheWorld

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    http://www.unilad.co.uk/news/brothe...dashian-is-not-embarrassed-about-killing-her/

    Brother Of ‘Pakistan’s Kim Kardashian’ Is ‘Not Embarrassed’ About Killing Her

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    The brother of a murdered Pakistani reality star has defended his decision to kill his sister ‘for honour’.

    In a shocking press conference, Muhammad Wasim, who has been arrested over the death of his sister Qandeel Baloch, 26, claimed he is ‘not embarrassed’ about strangling her because her behaviour ‘was completely intolerable’.

    Qandeel’s social media presence and feminist attitudes made her a somewhat controversial figure in the Muslim nation, with many dubbing her as Pakistan’s answer to Kim Kardashian.

    Wasim explained to reporters how he drugged her sister before killing her in their family home in Multan.

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    Wasim absconded after his sister’s death, but was eventually tracked down by police officers in a neighbouring district, where he confessed to his crime.

    Multan City police chief Azhar Akram said that Wasim told them he did it ‘after her recent objectionable videos’ which she mostly posted on Facebook.

    Baloch often claimed that she faced death threats after such videos, but her requests to the authorities for protection were sadly ignored.

    Hundreds of women are murdered for ‘honour’ every year in Pakistan, with the law stating that the murderer can walk free if the victim’s family agrees to forgive them.

    Shockingly, these murders are usually not prosecuted and often turn out to be carried out by family members themselves, just like in this case.

    Many took to the capital Lahore to mourn her death, with an online petition now going viral to demand accountability over her horrific death.

    Speaking about Baloch, columnist and activist Aisha Sarawari said:

    She added that her killing ‘defines yet another setback for the women of our generation. This makes it harder for women. Period’.
     
  6. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member

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    From a 2013 Pew poll:

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    Note the numbers are percentage of polled who think it'd never justified.

    http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/...-society-morality/#beliefs-about-family-honor

    This is a major cultural problem in Muslim countries. In most of the countries, the Muslims polled think it is sometimes justified against men and women in equal proportion. But that's very clearly not the case in the Arab ME countries.
     
  7. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    Hopefully this horrible thing can be the impetus to get the law changed.
     
  8. sammy

    sammy Contributing Member

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    Wait.. Why aren't these cases prosecuted?
     
  9. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member

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    In Pakistan, at least, I believe it's up to the family.
     
  10. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!

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    ****ing barbaric.

    DD
     
  11. sammy

    sammy Contributing Member

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    The family decides to kill them so they can easily get away with it? This makes no sense.
     
  12. Mathloom

    Mathloom Contributing Member

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    These people are saying it's permissible according to what leading clerics say (and mind you, they have no say in who becomes a leading cleric). They are not stating that they would do it, or they wouldn't mind doing it, or that they think this is or should be the national law.

    If the question was would you engage in an honor killing, the numbers would change dramatically. As in, yes many big Saudi and Egyptian clerics say it's permissible, but virtually no one would actually do it - like many things in Islam. That's why it happens more in Africa than it does in the Arab muslim majority countries. That's why it is as prevalent in Christian Arab societies. It also happens in several Christian majority nations.

    Their relaying of a centralized scripted interpretation of a text is not the equivalent of condoning the action. The culture is that most Muslims personally would NOT do it, and that's why they don't. 9 out of 10 Emirati females are posting things on their instagram which would get them executed in a Pakistani village. There are complexities involved.

    If you asked me if beating your wife is permissable in Islam, I would say yes of course in a multiple choice questionnaire despite being totally against it. That's an extremely common stance.

    Also, this is a study of Sunni Muslims in some Sunni Muslim countries. It's hardly a scientific study of overall Muslim views. Iraq is the only country in that list with a significant shiite population, and it scores lowest of all. That's not because honor killings are rarer in Iraq - they are not - it's again because fewer of their unelected famous clerics interpret their texts to say honor killings are permissible. That doesn't make an Iraqi Muslim more or less likely to commit an honor killing because honor killing is an old ARAB cultural phenomenon that persists in places where education hasn't caught up. It was exported to Pakistan via Exiled's people masked as Islam, yes, but they were able to do that because Pakistanis needed the money and schools and books. I've mentioned it before, the best example of this is just how many Pakistanis and South Asians in general think that that little white skullcap has a connection to Islam.

    Having said all that, it's more prevalent than it should be because even 1 honor killing is too many. It is far from shocking or some kind of conundrum how often it currently happens, it's nothing that needs to be studied. We know why it happens, the frequency is logical, and the solution is easy and clear. Better schools, more internet, travel, improved legal/enforcement framework, more independent and less corruptible authorities, etc. Honor killings used to be extremely prevalent in this corner of the GCC (UAE) and it has practically disappeared now. Domestic abuse is shrinking. Forced marriages are no longer legal. You don't have to go to a court where women's testimony is less than men's. Etc. You know why? Because women are more literate, more educated, more employed and better paid than men now. They are richer and more powerful, and employers and marketers are championing their rise. They don't need men, and men don't have authority figures who can help them legally oppress women anymore. We are down to a couple of gender issues that need to be solved urgently (particularly related to rape), and I know there will be announcements about those later in the year.

    I don't understand what the specific infatuation is with this thing. People are killed for less or the same everyday in far greater numbers in the same countries where honor killings are happening. People are being kidnapped and murdered because they might be rich. Is it somehow more acceptable to kill for money than to kill for - from the murderer's perspective - honor? It's not. It's just a marketable name that feeds the xenophobes.

    If people care about the well being of Pakistanis, then they wouldn't pay attention just when a pretty innocent girl gets tragically killed like the poor girl in the OP. They would also pay attention when missiles rain on weddings or hospitals full of innocent men, women and children. You can care about both, of course, but where 0 honor killings seem to go unnoticed, 95% of other larger tragedies in these communities go unnoticed regularly.
     
  13. Mathloom

    Mathloom Contributing Member

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    Exactly. This article makes it seem like if an adult female doesn't have legal guardians anymore (all deceased), then you can kill her in the street and nothing can be done. Can't be the case, no matter what we think of Pakistani law.
     
  14. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"

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    Nicely said and agree with that statement.

    This is a very interesting and potentially telling statement. How on earth could you possibly be killed for "less" that this woman who used social media? It seems you, despite a very reasonable veneer, harbor some minor judgment of her activity.

    But I see your point. That we don't seem to care about the other horrors. Well, it's simply the "man bites dog" phenomenon. We are just not aware of other places on earth where family members are allowed to kill one another based on some medieval view of behavior and "honor". Meanwhile, we are used to seeing people killed for money all the damned time. That explains why this particular bit of backward barbarism is "news" to a lot of the planet.
     
  15. DudeWah

    DudeWah Member

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    This type of thing has to stop. No one should ever be killed for that.

    I don't understand the point you're trying to make with this. If it's that in Muslim countries people a strong minority of people think that honor killings are justified then I agree with you. And that's definitely a problem.

    I don't see why the "offense committed by females" is even on there. I'd wager that >95% (and probably close to 100%) of these murders are done by males.
     
  16. Mathloom

    Mathloom Contributing Member

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    Jesus Christ you guys are relentless. LESS FROM THE MURDERER'S PERSPECTIVE.

    My posts are so ****ing long because there's this air of prejudice that makes me triple explain every ****ing sentence I'm so sick of this ****.
     
  17. DudeWah

    DudeWah Member

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    Just a different perspective:

    There are quite a few women here who are murdered (by a male) after breaking up with their boyfriend or because they spurned a man. I feel like in third world Muslim countries that happens rarely if at all.

    On the other hand "honor killings" happen.

    In either situation it's wrong. The bigger problem is that in societies where honor killings happen, the male is usually let go according to the information I've seen online. I think that's the real issue.
     
  18. AroundTheWorld

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    That's a real shame.

    Looks like you almost got it. In countries like Pakistan, it's not a minority, it's the majority that thinks "honor killings" can be justified.

    By "offense", what is meant is the alleged "offense" (like not wearing a veil) that led to the "honor killing".
     
  19. AroundTheWorld

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    Also, leave it to Mathloom to once again show his true colors and rationalize Muslim attitudes to honor killings. So telling.
     
  20. sammy

    sammy Contributing Member

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    I think his point is some of this is cultural. Hindus in India also do honor killings but from what I've read, men are killed at a 40% clip (perhaps rapists, child molesters)? A Hindu girl could be killed if she doesn't marry who her parents want, etc.
     

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