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Q&A with Jeremy Lin

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by stl1622dc, Sep 21, 2012.

  1. CXbby

    CXbby Member

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    People are rarely consciously racist anymore. It is more subconscious and stereotyping. For instance, I doubt your highschool friend had anything against Mexicans. It was simply ingrained in his mind, by society, that Mexicans shouldn't be able to block him.

    Jeremy Lin is a combination of stereotypes. Asian. Harvard. Which led to Undrafted. Given those 3 things, he shouldn't be doing what he did, because the Norm tells us that. Which is why we are subconsciously extra critical and skeptical of what he has done and what he may become.

    Lin is not without weaknesses and he has a lot of room to grow and improve. However, the reason I am critical of the amount of skepticism that goes his way is because it is unfairly due. Imagine if it was Rubio or Irving who we traded for. Players who have accomplished just as little as Lin. Would there be a similar skepticism over Rubio's shooting or Irving's turnovers and utter lack of defense? Or would we be celebrating our unquestioned future franchise players with unlimited upside?
     
  2. RV6

    RV6 Contributing Member

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    I guess he was trying to make a point, but he did say it....



    I did see some of his games and i did notice he hesitated going left. I admit i may not have watched all of them or seen all the advanced stats, but in the games i saw, he waited to go right. It was early on though, so perhaps teams hadn't adjusted and Lin was taking advantage of his stronger side, but that's not going to keep happening.

    It can't all just be me seeing things when his own team made it a priority to have him work on his left. I don't remember that being the case with Brooks or Lowry.


    Rubio and irving are top 5 picks. You give them the benefit of the doubt because of that, not because they're not Asian and Harvard graduates. Everyone has weaknesses, even top picks, but they usually certain things much better than others. I don't think that's a good comparison to make.

    All i want is a larger sample size. I've seen too many players pick up their games to a high level over a season and then go back to what they were. Although i don't believe Lin is going to regress back to a third string PG, he hasn't played enough to know he'll be more than an ok starting point, or possibly even just a really good back up. I'm actually optimistic he will be, but you need more than 30 NBA games to really know how a player will do.
     
    #82 RV6, Sep 22, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2012
  3. CXbby

    CXbby Member

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    Please refer to this excellent post that frames it much more succinctly and less sarcastically than I have:



    It is not racism per se. We can refer to it as cognitive bias.
     
    #83 CXbby, Sep 22, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2012
  4. gtmkcp

    gtmkcp Member

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    From his first game as a starter against the Jazz, they were already forcing him left, so the defense to force him left started right away. The commentators knew that was his weak side, so NBA teams should also know this. I think Lin wants to improve all aspects of his game and if your left or another area is not as strong then you would focus on making that stronger.
     
  5. Arthurprescott2

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    Can we get through one discussion without race-baiting? Please? Jesus...

    I don't know why people take it so personally when someone chooses to denigrate/praise Lin. Just offer your subjective take as opposed to pretending to provide broader social commentary or perspective that explains it all.
     
  6. RV6

    RV6 Contributing Member

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    I knew what you were saying initially, but if you've watched someone a few times and still have a biased based on his appearance or where he came from, then there's some racism involved.

    I can understand someone initially seeing Lin and sterotyping him, but even i saw he had good strength and speed when he was here in the preseason. There was one specific play, i think it was from a video Clutch uploaded of a practice scrimmage, and that's all i needed to see to know he had it. Maybe it's because I'm fitness-oriented and look for certain things, but teams have trainers and coaches who would as well. I figured there must be something else he's not doing to be an undrafted third string pg. You may think it's being Asian, but i dont think coaches and scouts are going to write "pros: has size and speed cons: he's asian" and decide to pass on that. I'd like to think they actually want to keep their jobs...
     
  7. roxxy

    roxxy Member

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    Listen there were a multiplicity of reasons as to why he went undrafted. Part of it is that he went to Harvard. A small school not particularly stellar competition. Also, the draft process is also imperfect. There were guys who scout draft prospects and some of them pointed to Lin as being a player who would be solid in the NBA. Also, if you watched Lin in GSW he is not the same player that he is now. He was significantly worse. He was also not in the same shape as he is now. He literally changed himself over the lock out after he saw guys like Curry & Ellis who were all way better than him. His race did play a part because guys don't have a frame of reference for asian pg's before. Look at Nash who went to a small school and was a canadian point guard back then that was different. Lin also was quite "old" for his draft class, look at John Wall who was 19 simple things like age matter. Lin's workout with the Knicks was his best & Dantoni told him that he had a little steve nash in him he actually thought the Knicks would draft him but they didn't. Donnie Nielson who gave Lin a SL spot liked his game & actually took him out to dinner saying I think you can in time be like JJ Barea. Nielson felt that he was one year off from being ready for the NBA and Nielson was right. The Lakers, Mavs, GSW all wanted him & offered him 2 year deals Lin chose GSW so clearly people around the league saw something in him & we all knew that Houston was high on him. I don't see why it matter why he wasn't drafted because he is 25 million dollars richer and is a starter on a good team.
     
  8. roxxy

    roxxy Member

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    Agreed. Let's keep it strictly basketball.
     
  9. CXbby

    CXbby Member

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    If this is what you believe, then in your specific case, it has nothing to do with cognitive biases, but rather merely standard ignorance.

    You give players the benefit of the doubt based on their on court production. NOT their often misplaced draft positions that become meaningless the second they step on an NBA court.
     
  10. BornTexan

    BornTexan Rookie

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    If you connect the dots between his basketball skills, his accomplishments compared to his peers under the same circumstances and why he was not drafted, race is an inevitable topic.

    Lin himself mentioned the racial stereotype thing during several of his interviews, including the ones from ESPN and CNN.

    Lin is the first noteworthy Asian American NBA basketball player, why is it a taboo to talk about how he breaks the racial prejudice barrier? Do you really believe we are living in a color blind society? It should be considered an accomplishment for America as a whole for god's sake despite of all the stupid things happening.
     
  11. RV6

    RV6 Contributing Member

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    Guys like rubio and Irving are not misplaced. They did enough on the court against good/known competition to showcase their unique talents and earn top spots in the draft. You're referring to unknowns drafted high purely on potential, despite playing against poor compeition or hardly playing at all, not the case with these two.


    You do remember what you said about this guy before he even stepped on an NBA court, right? I actually had high hopes for him too, if you recall...

    [​IMG]
     
    #91 RV6, Sep 22, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2012
  12. roxxy

    roxxy Member

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    This is silly. You are acting like every top spot is well deserved. What about Darko or Kwame Brown or Greg Oden? Irving played 11 college games and was still a consensus number one pick was that enough. Look at Rondo. Look at John Wall guys are already starting to whisper draft bust.
     
  13. luden

    luden Member

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    You saw some games and you're basing your judgement from the eye test?! Now I know why people are giving you such a hard time. People here and on other Lin threads have provided stats and reasonable discussion, yet you decide to quote one poster (who's wrong by the way) who says Lin goes left 90% of the time time to prove your point?! You don't want a discussion, you see Lin a certain way and that's all that matters to you.

    No one in this thread has said that he's going to be the next cp3/nash
     
  14. RV6

    RV6 Contributing Member

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    I wasn't quoting that poster to prove my point, i was pointing out that even someone who disagreed thought they saw the same.

    Yes, i saw some games. What do you want me to say, that i saw 60 of his 82 games? Maybe when he actually plays that many, i will.
    (i know he's played just over 60, but almost half with GS in limited action)

    I've already admitted he probably went left more than i saw, but i dont see how that neglects my main point, which is his significantly weaker left. Again, if it is all in my head, why did the Rockets make it a priority to tell him to work on it?

    I adressed this in my response to Cxbby...if he had mentioned Brown or darko, then i would not have replied the same. The two guys he mentioned, without a doubt, earned their spots. i agree not every player does, Cxbby just picked the wrong guys to try and prove his point.
     
    #94 RV6, Sep 22, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2012
  15. CXbby

    CXbby Member

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    You misunderstand. I was speaking in general terms and never said Rubio and Irving are misplaced. They SHOULD be given the benefit of the doubt. But because of what they did on the court last year, NOT their draft position(which CAN be misplaced as it is with countless other high draft picks).

    Similarly, Lin SHOULD be given the benefit of the doubt. Because of what he did on the court, not his undeserved draft position which was undoubtedly misplaced.



    I do remember what I said about Morris last year, and this year he may or may not improve or prove himself. BUT, I give him ZERO benefit of the doubt because of his on court production last year. What I thought about him before he ever stepped foot on an NBA court has no bearing on my opinions of him now. That is called accepting reality. Just like accepting the reality that Lin was drafted far too low, and should be given the same benefit of the doubt as others who have accomplished and produced just as much or little as him. I am 100% consistent in my views on this.
     
    #95 CXbby, Sep 22, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2012
  16. Alex L.

    Alex L. Contributing Member

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    Some people have foresight, some have hindsight, some are blind, some believe things when they see them, some just refuse to admit what they see even when pointed out to them. Lin doubters will always doubt. No need to further "discuss" with you-know-who, who keeps modifying his opinion to say he's not wrong.
     
  17. gtmkcp

    gtmkcp Member

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    Who on the Rockets told him to work on his left? I don't think I heard anything public from the Rockets about telling him what he should work on. Lin is the only one who's mentioned what he's working on based on his own evaluation on what he sees are his weaknesses.
     
  18. Alex L.

    Alex L. Contributing Member

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    Maybe someone at NASA? lol... We certainly don"t have clearance to those top secrests :)

    Someone's obviously trying to sneak a little misleading "info" into each of his post to "prove his point" :)
     
  19. RV6

    RV6 Contributing Member

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    Lin is 24 now. Irving was drafted at 19, Rubio came in at 20.

    You're saying that we should give the same benefit of the doubt for Lin now, that we'd give the other two their rookie years? I just don't see how you can. How can you when they have more talent and time to work with?
     
  20. roxxy

    roxxy Member

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    Your point doesn't make any sense and Cxbby is right. The fact that the draft is an imperfect science proves that you should wait until they actually do something on an NBA court and then give them the benefit of the doubt. Should I still be giving Kwame Brown the benefit of the doubt because of his high draft pick? No. I have written him off because he has done nothing of significance in the league. The Rockets likely told him to work on everything in his game. His outside shooting, his protective ball handling, defense everything because he is still a work in progress. Every player has weaknesses & every franchise tells there players to improve every season. Your making a big deal out of something very inconsequential.
     

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